https://youtu.be/CoC_n-BYPJ4
It is pretty clear to me that everyone could have a dish solar powered Stirling generator, or some variation of the same, in all our back yards, charging our electric cars and that this technology could eventually replace oil and gas, infact, this could have happened a decade ago.
But residential size dish Stirling technology was suddenly scraped, just as it was perfected by the collaborative genius of NASA and other collaborators.
Today this same technology developed largely through taxpayer, government funding is mostly utilized, not to free us from dependence on conventional petrochemicals, gas and oil, but by the petrochemical companies themselves.
Call it what you like. Legitimize it however you want, I call it selling out.
Bottom line is, they went for the big payoff, where the big money is, the gas and oil companies save a bundle and we end users get to keep on being dependent so the status quo is maintained.
Why don't any of these companies produce, or continue to produce residential systems ?
It looks to me like, basically, these new technology companies are being brought off with lucrative contracts with the established energy monopolies the technology was designed to ultimately replace.
An interesting interview nevertheless.
Residential Stirling - why we don't have it
Re: Residential Stirling - why we don't have it
The reason I arrive at this conclusion, one reason anyway, the guy passes along what seem like clear BS to me.
Take the idea that we can't have residential systems because people could not afford the large quantities of very expensive helium.
Well, I had gone out and bought several of the largest helium balloon tanks available locally for under $100 and it turns out that was about five or six times more helium than I actually needed. There is actually very little space for working fluid in these engines, and I think mine is a bigger engine than would actually be required for many households. And, although helium may be the best option over all, there are several alternative gases that could be used as working fluid.
Further, he is somewhat misleading when implying that NASA is somehow beholden to him or Qnergy for the technology. Seems a bit of a stretch.
They tried, early on, to produce domestic units, but the engines were too expensive for people to afford?
OK well, Is guess that's one way of looking at it.
Why work hard making millions of affordably priced CHP units for regular homeowners when you can get stinking rich making just a few ?
The biggest yarn though, is implying that us ordinary peasants, like farmers with mountains of cow manure, just have to wait another five or ten years, when the time comes that he decides things are ready or whatever.
Build your own.
Do the valves on gas pipelines actually vent into the air? Is that even actually a thing ?
Seems like a "make work" deal to me, and so if they are making these remote power units anyway, why can they not sell them to homeowners or businesses or farmers?
I think they could, quite obviously, if not under some kind of contract that prevents them from doing so. IMO.
Take the idea that we can't have residential systems because people could not afford the large quantities of very expensive helium.
Well, I had gone out and bought several of the largest helium balloon tanks available locally for under $100 and it turns out that was about five or six times more helium than I actually needed. There is actually very little space for working fluid in these engines, and I think mine is a bigger engine than would actually be required for many households. And, although helium may be the best option over all, there are several alternative gases that could be used as working fluid.
Further, he is somewhat misleading when implying that NASA is somehow beholden to him or Qnergy for the technology. Seems a bit of a stretch.
They tried, early on, to produce domestic units, but the engines were too expensive for people to afford?
OK well, Is guess that's one way of looking at it.
Why work hard making millions of affordably priced CHP units for regular homeowners when you can get stinking rich making just a few ?
The biggest yarn though, is implying that us ordinary peasants, like farmers with mountains of cow manure, just have to wait another five or ten years, when the time comes that he decides things are ready or whatever.
Build your own.
Do the valves on gas pipelines actually vent into the air? Is that even actually a thing ?
Seems like a "make work" deal to me, and so if they are making these remote power units anyway, why can they not sell them to homeowners or businesses or farmers?
I think they could, quite obviously, if not under some kind of contract that prevents them from doing so. IMO.
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skyofcolorado
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:11 am
Re: Residential Stirling - why we don't have it
Yeah, you're not wrong about any of that, but I can't fault a guy for seeking the most profit for the least work. If it's truly publicly funded work though, it definitely irks me that they would be able to patent restrict the concept thus preventing someone else from pursuing a residential market.
Yet in practical terms, I feel that nobody would buy a multi-axis sun tracking solar dish reflector for residential use. Stirling engine aside, the dish itself would be way too complex, expensive, and unnecessary when an untracked trough reflector system would accomplish the same thing cheaper and easier.
And speaking of cheaper and easier, solar PV would still win at today's prices (~$0.20/Watt). Using a Stirling engine would only be useful in my view if the heat source was available 24hrs/day like geothermal or stored heat from the dish/trough system.
FYI, while I don't know your specific helium source, balloon gas (aka "balloonium" lol) is rarely pure helium anymore for liability reasons. It's mixed with enough CO2 and/or oxygen to prevent accidental asphyxiation, but still enough helium to be lighter than air. I probably don't need to tell you how that would alter the performance of your engine, so maybe check it first? If it sustains a flame there's O2, and if bubbling it through limewater results in a precipitate there's CO2.
Enjoying your posts as always, and hoping that one day you will narrate your videos for clarity.
Yet in practical terms, I feel that nobody would buy a multi-axis sun tracking solar dish reflector for residential use. Stirling engine aside, the dish itself would be way too complex, expensive, and unnecessary when an untracked trough reflector system would accomplish the same thing cheaper and easier.
And speaking of cheaper and easier, solar PV would still win at today's prices (~$0.20/Watt). Using a Stirling engine would only be useful in my view if the heat source was available 24hrs/day like geothermal or stored heat from the dish/trough system.
FYI, while I don't know your specific helium source, balloon gas (aka "balloonium" lol) is rarely pure helium anymore for liability reasons. It's mixed with enough CO2 and/or oxygen to prevent accidental asphyxiation, but still enough helium to be lighter than air. I probably don't need to tell you how that would alter the performance of your engine, so maybe check it first? If it sustains a flame there's O2, and if bubbling it through limewater results in a precipitate there's CO2.
Enjoying your posts as always, and hoping that one day you will narrate your videos for clarity.
Re: Residential Stirling - why we don't have it
I'm generally not a very talkative person, and I figure a pictures worth a thousand words. Also, having to explain what's going on, to everyone out there in the world who might happen across one of my videos would necessitate so much redundant explanatory verbiage as to extend the length of the video indefinitely.
My videos are almost all intended as brief adjuncts to threads on this forum, many of.which have been ongoing for years. I get your point, but where to begin?
In 1826 ( or whatever ) Robert Stirling invented.... ...200 years later NASA..... ...the function of a displacer is.... ...but not all Stirling engines have a regenerator.... ...so you see this big silver space age thing I'm lowering into my basement with a winch is actually.... ....(and so forth and so on )
I'm not a videographer. I'm not making a living narrating flashy videos. I don't have the time. None of my videos are monetized.
So if someone does not understand why I'm blasting a gerbal's lava rock chew toy with a blow torch, they can read the video title. It that's not enough, I always (I think) write a description, often quite detailed and lengthy, and if that's not enough, I often provide a link to the relevant thread on the forum, and if they have any more questions, there is the comments section on YouTube or the forum here. They could also call on the phone or come over for a visit for that matter if someone feels that they need to hear my voice or see my face. Half the time, I make a video at the spur of the moment at the kitchen table in my bathrobe, in the middle of the night because it's either then or never. I just haven't got the time to make myself presentable for the camera, and that probably would not be possible.
Anyway, ...
My videos are almost all intended as brief adjuncts to threads on this forum, many of.which have been ongoing for years. I get your point, but where to begin?
In 1826 ( or whatever ) Robert Stirling invented.... ...200 years later NASA..... ...the function of a displacer is.... ...but not all Stirling engines have a regenerator.... ...so you see this big silver space age thing I'm lowering into my basement with a winch is actually.... ....(and so forth and so on )
I'm not a videographer. I'm not making a living narrating flashy videos. I don't have the time. None of my videos are monetized.
So if someone does not understand why I'm blasting a gerbal's lava rock chew toy with a blow torch, they can read the video title. It that's not enough, I always (I think) write a description, often quite detailed and lengthy, and if that's not enough, I often provide a link to the relevant thread on the forum, and if they have any more questions, there is the comments section on YouTube or the forum here. They could also call on the phone or come over for a visit for that matter if someone feels that they need to hear my voice or see my face. Half the time, I make a video at the spur of the moment at the kitchen table in my bathrobe, in the middle of the night because it's either then or never. I just haven't got the time to make myself presentable for the camera, and that probably would not be possible.
Anyway, ...
Re: Residential Stirling - why we don't have it
Curious about these NASA sponsored Stirling engines, who benefits, etc. I came across this:
https://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/m ... -9004.html
That would, it seems to me, put this Infinia engine, pretty much in the "public domain" for the most part, and if some one corporation or whatever is claiming to have aquired exclusive rights of some sort,... In some way,... I'd be extremely skeptical and would suspect some, very likely illegal shenanigans.
What I personally think a Stirling engine has over photovoltaics is, almost anyone with any resources or mechanical aptitude whatsoever could cobble something together with readily available materials from the local hardware store, if not around their own garage or workshop or kitchen.
I'm not sure who has the means to fabricate their own photovoltaic panels. Not me, I know that much.
Further, fabricating a parabolic dish is not difficult or expensive at all, really, and a tracking system is not all that difficult either. There are numerous examples of DIY Solar trackers on YouTube. A solar concentrator can be made from polished metal, aluminum foil, mirror paint or space blankets, or an old satellite dish etc.
Several governmental agencies (e.g., the Department of Defense, the Department of Energy and NASA) have statutory prohibitions against private business organizations obtaining title to inventions developed with federal funds.
https://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/m ... -9004.html
That would, it seems to me, put this Infinia engine, pretty much in the "public domain" for the most part, and if some one corporation or whatever is claiming to have aquired exclusive rights of some sort,... In some way,... I'd be extremely skeptical and would suspect some, very likely illegal shenanigans.
What I personally think a Stirling engine has over photovoltaics is, almost anyone with any resources or mechanical aptitude whatsoever could cobble something together with readily available materials from the local hardware store, if not around their own garage or workshop or kitchen.
I'm not sure who has the means to fabricate their own photovoltaic panels. Not me, I know that much.
Further, fabricating a parabolic dish is not difficult or expensive at all, really, and a tracking system is not all that difficult either. There are numerous examples of DIY Solar trackers on YouTube. A solar concentrator can be made from polished metal, aluminum foil, mirror paint or space blankets, or an old satellite dish etc.
Re: Residential Stirling - why we don't have it
I'd like to know where you get this information, because from what I've been able to find out, balloon helium is almost always pure helium, because pure helium is almost always cheaper than helium mixed with any other gas, because helium is transported as a liquid mixing with other gases would require additional, expensive, processing.balloon gas (aka "balloonium" lol) is rarely pure helium anymore for liability reasons. It's mixed with enough CO2 and/or oxygen to prevent accidental asphyxiation, but still enough helium to be lighter than air.
Also, given the fact that helium IS lighter than air, I would think there would be a tendency for it to separate in the bottle, so mixing it with oxygen or air would likely be a futile endeavor. What came out of the bottle would be pure helium anyway, or just air/oxygen, depending on how the bottle was oriented, no?
Re: Residential Stirling - why we don't have it
I don't believe "pure helium" is necessary in a Stirling engine.
In this video, apparently using a normal helium balloon, there is a pronounced effect, though it is doubtful what percentage of helium was actually drawn into the engine by this crude method.
https://youtu.be/uysxKgr8Qjk
Pretty obviously, initially, the engine is running with zero helium.
I think the suggestion, however, that this works because helium is "lighter" is misleading. Helium conducts heat better.
In this video, apparently using a normal helium balloon, there is a pronounced effect, though it is doubtful what percentage of helium was actually drawn into the engine by this crude method.
https://youtu.be/uysxKgr8Qjk
Pretty obviously, initially, the engine is running with zero helium.
I think the suggestion, however, that this works because helium is "lighter" is misleading. Helium conducts heat better.
Re: Residential Stirling - why we don't have it
Here goes another one.
Azelio.
Been watching this company for some time now. I think a few years. Nice small Stirling engine based energy storage system.
So what is taking so long? When can I get a "Pod" along with some solar panels, wind generators or whatever for my own back yard? Or anyone's?
Well, Azelio has posted a flood of new videos to YouTube in the past few months, some in the past few days and the verdict has come in.
Looks like the answer to those questions is NEVER
They will not ever be making their system available to the residential market. They say, supposedly their system is not suitable or appropriate because supposedly we little people do not require energy 24/7.
Households don't need energy at night. People go to bed at night don't you know.
Of course, I'm up right this moment at 2 AM putting coal into my "Chubby stove" because I don't need heat or electricity at night, why I should be sleeping.
Oh, well, I'm sleeping under an electric blanket because, well it's freezing cold out tonight and the coal stove is in the basement and the heat doesn't quite reach all the way upstairs to the bedroom, and, well, the wife and I, what in the world would we need heat or electricity after dark for?
Not like us "unwashed mases" ever take a shower in the evening or early in the morning. Not like anyone ever has to cook after dark or early in the morning.
I'm really so sick of these sell outs catering to the big energy monopolies. Take a look at their sponsor list. Any big petroleum companies? BP, She'll, any others?
Anyway, from the horses mouth: about half way into the presentation.
https://youtu.be/D_eZEa2RSjQ?t=1180
Azelio.
Been watching this company for some time now. I think a few years. Nice small Stirling engine based energy storage system.
So what is taking so long? When can I get a "Pod" along with some solar panels, wind generators or whatever for my own back yard? Or anyone's?
Well, Azelio has posted a flood of new videos to YouTube in the past few months, some in the past few days and the verdict has come in.
Looks like the answer to those questions is NEVER
They will not ever be making their system available to the residential market. They say, supposedly their system is not suitable or appropriate because supposedly we little people do not require energy 24/7.
Households don't need energy at night. People go to bed at night don't you know.
Of course, I'm up right this moment at 2 AM putting coal into my "Chubby stove" because I don't need heat or electricity at night, why I should be sleeping.
Oh, well, I'm sleeping under an electric blanket because, well it's freezing cold out tonight and the coal stove is in the basement and the heat doesn't quite reach all the way upstairs to the bedroom, and, well, the wife and I, what in the world would we need heat or electricity after dark for?
Not like us "unwashed mases" ever take a shower in the evening or early in the morning. Not like anyone ever has to cook after dark or early in the morning.
I'm really so sick of these sell outs catering to the big energy monopolies. Take a look at their sponsor list. Any big petroleum companies? BP, She'll, any others?
Anyway, from the horses mouth: about half way into the presentation.
https://youtu.be/D_eZEa2RSjQ?t=1180
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matt brown
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2022 11:25 pm
Re: Residential Stirling - why we don't have it
Guys, the original idea of residential use was co-generation with electrical output prior space heating. In this manner, the waste heat was already required, and the only question was how much electricity could be generated and at what cost. In Northern Europe and Northeast US, about 80% of energy is space heating. Assuming this is supplied via fossil fuel, the input temperature of fuel is so high vs required space heating that generating power becomes almost a nobrainer...except for cost, maintenance, and lifespan of system. Unfortunately, such a system in not as simple (nor cheap) as a common household water heater or refeer.
I doubt helium is the 'magic' working gas due to diffusion; simply fill a scuba tank with helium and watch its pressure fall over a few days. I think argon is the way to go, since it's also monatomic, but fairly common, and no diffusion issues. The major advantage helium has over air is in a regenerated cycle where a diatomic gas magnifies regen inefficiency vs a monatomic working gas. Yes, heat transfer rate is important, but notice how diatomic hydrogen is less efficient than monatomic helium when SE has regen.
I doubt helium is the 'magic' working gas due to diffusion; simply fill a scuba tank with helium and watch its pressure fall over a few days. I think argon is the way to go, since it's also monatomic, but fairly common, and no diffusion issues. The major advantage helium has over air is in a regenerated cycle where a diatomic gas magnifies regen inefficiency vs a monatomic working gas. Yes, heat transfer rate is important, but notice how diatomic hydrogen is less efficient than monatomic helium when SE has regen.
Re: Residential Stirling - why we don't have it
A really good book for anyone interested in what really goes on behind the scenes to suppress, control and ultimately take over or eliminate competing small scale decentralized energy production.
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dlaliberte
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:38 pm
Re: Residential Stirling - why we don't have it
I just tripped over info about Sunamp, and their "heat battery" which is a phase change material thermal storage unit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OETqG5PCz_o
I talked with their New York office, and it appears I could get a 4 ton system for about $3500. The heat input is either electrical or hot water, so I would need some adapter to work with a heat pump system that delivers hot coolant to the house. Hmm, if I could convert that hot coolant to electricity using a Stirling Engine, how much power would that be? Same question as I posted earlier, for a different reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OETqG5PCz_o
I talked with their New York office, and it appears I could get a 4 ton system for about $3500. The heat input is either electrical or hot water, so I would need some adapter to work with a heat pump system that delivers hot coolant to the house. Hmm, if I could convert that hot coolant to electricity using a Stirling Engine, how much power would that be? Same question as I posted earlier, for a different reason.
Re: Residential Stirling - why we don't have it
Hi folks,
Does anybody know, if this is a "real" engine, or just some power-point pseudo imagination ?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/294546978023?h ... R8DCk6-WYQ
Nice poster though . . .
But freight to Denmark, hmmm no !
Perhaps on the wall down your basement Tom
\Petter
Does anybody know, if this is a "real" engine, or just some power-point pseudo imagination ?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/294546978023?h ... R8DCk6-WYQ
Nice poster though . . .
But freight to Denmark, hmmm no !
Perhaps on the wall down your basement Tom
\Petter
Re: Residential Stirling - why we don't have it
Looks like an artistic rendering to me, but who knows.
As far as why no residential Stirling systems available:
With my recent correspondence with Sunpower today, I also took the opportunity to inquire about the availability of any actual Stirling engines.
I'll reproduce the response:
Same old story.
As far as why no residential Stirling systems available:
With my recent correspondence with Sunpower today, I also took the opportunity to inquire about the availability of any actual Stirling engines.
I'll reproduce the response:
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Re: Residential Stirling - why we don't have it
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 35390.html
...installed in the IJ & Jeanné Wagner Jewish Community Center in Salt Lake City, Utah (JCC). It uses Qnergy's proprietary Free-Piston Stirling technology, the same fundamental technology that was recently recognized by NASA as the "the longest running heat engine ever built."
Great! So, can I get one for my local community center or my home today?"The generator has been providing both power and heat to our facility for more than two years," said Andrea Alcabes, executive director at JCC. "We are proud to be among the first users of the system and the first to reach the 20,000 hours mark," she added.
Not on your life bucko.Utah-based Qnergy provides reliable remote power in the 1-10 kilowatt range. The company helps oil and gas companies improve operational efficiency, decrease cost and reduce emissions.
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skyofcolorado
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:11 am