Hi Everyone!
I am a student and I am trying to make a LTD Gamma Stirling Engine. I saw this example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_jj9anoiSg
My displacer diameter 1 in thick, mat'l: styrofoam
the cylinder is 4.5 ID, mat'l acrylic tube
bottom plate mat'l aluminum
top plate mat'l acrylic sheet .25 thk.
1) will acrylic work? or does it need to be metal as well, will acrylic act as an insulator and not transfer the cold?)
2) Have I started out right and what should my sweep geometry be and the length of my cylinder (which encompasses my displacer) compared to my displacer. I have seen ratio 1/3, 2/3 or 1/2 and I am not sure. Please explain!
3) How should the diameter of the displacer be compared to the cylinder which it is in? The cylinder ID is fixed at 4.5 in.
4) How does the volume of the displacer relate to the volume of the piston? I read somewhere ratio 1.5:1. Is this right?
5) What material would you recommend for the piston and will my materials above work?
6) Also, is it true that I can only test to see if my engine will work once i assemble it and test it?
Thank you! Please please help me because I have to make this project in 2 weeks!!!!
Stirling Engine Gamma LTD
Your project time line is a bit short to produce a working LTD like or similar to the link you posted. I think you might be better off building a “tin can” Stirling (do a search, lots of free plans out there) One of those would more likely be successful and fit the time limit you mention.
However, if your going to build one like your link I would use the displacer diameter you have materials for but I wouldn’t make the displacer that thick. Most LTD’s of that flavor have thin displacers and thin chambers. I would make the displacer about 50 percent of the thickness of your chamber (about an inch thick chamber or less, displacer half that) Leave room (make it smaller around) for the air to pass around the displacer, about 1/8th inch space all the way around should work. Now your questions directly:
1. I would use the aluminum on both ends but I think it can work with acrylic as the top plate.
2. As I mention above, 50% seems right for LTD engines a typical Gamma (not LTD) is 2/3rds space taken up by the displacer.
3. If yours is 4.5, I would make the displacer 4.25 diameter
4. 1.5 to 1 is for a typical Gamma, not an LTD. I would make it something like 10 to 1, look closely at the sizes used in other LTD designs. You’ll see a small power piston sitting on a rather large displacer chamber. For your displacer size, I’d use about a 3/8th diameter power cylinder with a 3/8th to ½ inch stroke.
5. seamless copper tubing works and see other threads on this site for constructing a piston from epoxy
6. No way to test engine until it’s together as far as I know.
7. you didn’t ask a number 7 but friction is going to be the biggest challenge! It must have very low friction or it will not run at all. Most of the energy produced by an LTD is used to overcome it’s own friction
8. Good luck.
However, if your going to build one like your link I would use the displacer diameter you have materials for but I wouldn’t make the displacer that thick. Most LTD’s of that flavor have thin displacers and thin chambers. I would make the displacer about 50 percent of the thickness of your chamber (about an inch thick chamber or less, displacer half that) Leave room (make it smaller around) for the air to pass around the displacer, about 1/8th inch space all the way around should work. Now your questions directly:
1. I would use the aluminum on both ends but I think it can work with acrylic as the top plate.
2. As I mention above, 50% seems right for LTD engines a typical Gamma (not LTD) is 2/3rds space taken up by the displacer.
3. If yours is 4.5, I would make the displacer 4.25 diameter
4. 1.5 to 1 is for a typical Gamma, not an LTD. I would make it something like 10 to 1, look closely at the sizes used in other LTD designs. You’ll see a small power piston sitting on a rather large displacer chamber. For your displacer size, I’d use about a 3/8th diameter power cylinder with a 3/8th to ½ inch stroke.
5. seamless copper tubing works and see other threads on this site for constructing a piston from epoxy
6. No way to test engine until it’s together as far as I know.
7. you didn’t ask a number 7 but friction is going to be the biggest challenge! It must have very low friction or it will not run at all. Most of the energy produced by an LTD is used to overcome it’s own friction
8. Good luck.
Thank you!
I have committed to this project and I have to finish it in time. I have already started building:
top and bottom plate are now aluminum 6in dia, 4 bolts eq sp. on 5.5 dia.
chamber is actually 1.5 in length, 4.25 in ID (cut it before you replied)
displacer is 1 in long, 4 in dia.
1) I may have to tweak it after reading your comments, I will make the diameter of the displacer smaller so air can get around as you mentioned, and do you think I need to make my displacer thickness smaller. Should i reduce the chamber or the displacer size or both?
2) For the rods I am using nylon .25 in dia rod but it is not very stiff, I was thinking that it wouldn't matter if i cut it to 1-2 in length. I was going to use a codder pin to connect the rods with a small hole in each. Good or bad idea? Any other suggestions?
3) Piston should be 10 times smaller in volume than the displacer?? Should the sleeve be brass? Why is that a good choice (i will need to justify the choice to my prof)
4) What is the best method to bond aluminum to brass? I know Al to AL has to be TIG welded, which I do not have the facilities for, only have MIG (i think). I have JB weld for steel, but i dunno if that will work. I also heard sylicone adhesive can be used?
5) What material should I use for the piston? So far I have read balsa wood or fiberglass?
top and bottom plate are now aluminum 6in dia, 4 bolts eq sp. on 5.5 dia.
chamber is actually 1.5 in length, 4.25 in ID (cut it before you replied)
displacer is 1 in long, 4 in dia.
1) I may have to tweak it after reading your comments, I will make the diameter of the displacer smaller so air can get around as you mentioned, and do you think I need to make my displacer thickness smaller. Should i reduce the chamber or the displacer size or both?
2) For the rods I am using nylon .25 in dia rod but it is not very stiff, I was thinking that it wouldn't matter if i cut it to 1-2 in length. I was going to use a codder pin to connect the rods with a small hole in each. Good or bad idea? Any other suggestions?
3) Piston should be 10 times smaller in volume than the displacer?? Should the sleeve be brass? Why is that a good choice (i will need to justify the choice to my prof)
4) What is the best method to bond aluminum to brass? I know Al to AL has to be TIG welded, which I do not have the facilities for, only have MIG (i think). I have JB weld for steel, but i dunno if that will work. I also heard sylicone adhesive can be used?
5) What material should I use for the piston? So far I have read balsa wood or fiberglass?
Gamma123,
1) seems a tad thick but should work as you have it. Making it thin will help keep the weight down and the energy required to move it. I think that is why most of the very low LTD engines are made that way.
2) the material for rods can be just about anything, light and stiff enough is all that is required. The bearings at the rotating ends are the most important. You can use simple holes with pins but make sure the fit isn't too snug. A small ball bearing is best but more difficult align correctly. Remember side loads, they will give you the most trouble with any binding issues.
3) I only made a guess at the volume difference in the engines I have made and ten to twenty times smaller should work for a typical LTD but be ready to do some tweeking for best results. There are formulas out there for proper volumes etc. Frankly, they mostly go over my head with the math involved so I size up my volumes from a best guess by observing working models I've seen. Not scientific and not the answer you want..sorry. Brass is easy to work with because it's soft and has low friction properties, also it's widely available and can be found in the sizes you already need.
4) I would use some kind of epoxy or simply use silicone to bond those together, your working loads are very small so nothing needs to be all that strong. A bead of silicone is quite enough I would think. A first working model isn't very pretty, leave that to the engines that follow and allow time and experience with the materials you find that work best.
5) Graphite would be my choice but I can't produce my own. I have purchased cylinder sets from http://www.airpot.com/ but this won't be an option for this engine and your time line. you can use nylon spacers turned to fit your cylinder with a drill and sandpaper (works, I've done it) Others have "cast" theirs from epoxy by lightly greasing the cylinder and pouring in enough epoxy to use as a piston. You can even add the connecting rod end in the epoxy. You can machine a piston from aluminum, brass or steel if you have a lathe but the fit is critical and skill with a lathe is required. I don't know of any wood (balsa) pistons that work but it's possible I suppose. Fiberglass, yes, the epoxy anyway. I don't think it needs any reinforcement glass for a small piston. You can even try a balsa piston coated with epoxy and turned down to fit your cylinder I suppose. As for any explainations to your professor, I would have to say "material availablity and difficulty to work with to produce a working model" and not so much what the best possible materials really are. You could mention what the ideal materials are but explain the cost and or difficulty in using them for your example.
6) keep searching the net for other Stirling engines to examine and learn how they were made.
1) seems a tad thick but should work as you have it. Making it thin will help keep the weight down and the energy required to move it. I think that is why most of the very low LTD engines are made that way.
2) the material for rods can be just about anything, light and stiff enough is all that is required. The bearings at the rotating ends are the most important. You can use simple holes with pins but make sure the fit isn't too snug. A small ball bearing is best but more difficult align correctly. Remember side loads, they will give you the most trouble with any binding issues.
3) I only made a guess at the volume difference in the engines I have made and ten to twenty times smaller should work for a typical LTD but be ready to do some tweeking for best results. There are formulas out there for proper volumes etc. Frankly, they mostly go over my head with the math involved so I size up my volumes from a best guess by observing working models I've seen. Not scientific and not the answer you want..sorry. Brass is easy to work with because it's soft and has low friction properties, also it's widely available and can be found in the sizes you already need.
4) I would use some kind of epoxy or simply use silicone to bond those together, your working loads are very small so nothing needs to be all that strong. A bead of silicone is quite enough I would think. A first working model isn't very pretty, leave that to the engines that follow and allow time and experience with the materials you find that work best.
5) Graphite would be my choice but I can't produce my own. I have purchased cylinder sets from http://www.airpot.com/ but this won't be an option for this engine and your time line. you can use nylon spacers turned to fit your cylinder with a drill and sandpaper (works, I've done it) Others have "cast" theirs from epoxy by lightly greasing the cylinder and pouring in enough epoxy to use as a piston. You can even add the connecting rod end in the epoxy. You can machine a piston from aluminum, brass or steel if you have a lathe but the fit is critical and skill with a lathe is required. I don't know of any wood (balsa) pistons that work but it's possible I suppose. Fiberglass, yes, the epoxy anyway. I don't think it needs any reinforcement glass for a small piston. You can even try a balsa piston coated with epoxy and turned down to fit your cylinder I suppose. As for any explainations to your professor, I would have to say "material availablity and difficulty to work with to produce a working model" and not so much what the best possible materials really are. You could mention what the ideal materials are but explain the cost and or difficulty in using them for your example.
6) keep searching the net for other Stirling engines to examine and learn how they were made.
power piston port hole
Gamma123,
Yes, a hole about one quarter the size of the diameter of the power cylinder. I've seen them done with the cylinder wide open to the displacer but I've read it's better to be smaller, not sure why.
Yes, a hole about one quarter the size of the diameter of the power cylinder. I've seen them done with the cylinder wide open to the displacer but I've read it's better to be smaller, not sure why.
hi!
great progress I am almost done except just one thing I am confused about:
1) Is the 10:1 ratio is the ratio between the swept volume of the displacer and the swept volume of the piston, correct?
2) So if that is so, then what is the relation between the volume of the actual displacer vs piston ie the size.
Displacer dia 4 in, 1 in length
Displacer Cylinder, 4.2 ID, 1.5 length
Piston dia 1 in, length 1.6 in (is that too big?)
Piston Cylinder 1 inch ID, 2.7 in long
This is the only thing I need to do and my project has to be finished really soon! Thank you so much for your help so far its been great!
1) Is the 10:1 ratio is the ratio between the swept volume of the displacer and the swept volume of the piston, correct?
2) So if that is so, then what is the relation between the volume of the actual displacer vs piston ie the size.
Displacer dia 4 in, 1 in length
Displacer Cylinder, 4.2 ID, 1.5 length
Piston dia 1 in, length 1.6 in (is that too big?)
Piston Cylinder 1 inch ID, 2.7 in long
This is the only thing I need to do and my project has to be finished really soon! Thank you so much for your help so far its been great!
Gamma123,
1. Ten to one is approximate, anything close to that will work as LTD. The difference will be in the temperature differential required for operation. If the swept volumes are closer in size, you will need more heat. A very large displacer will require a very small differential to run however, the added mass of the large displacer will at some point prevent the engine from running due to the power required to move it. Ten to one is a good middle ground but may not run from the heat of your hand, that kind of engine MUST be very low friction and usually won’t spin very fast under those conditions.
2. Your power piston is too big, it may work if heated enough but you might have over-heating damage from the first “run”. I would use 3/8 th diameter and about the same for length of piston or maybe a tad shorter. I would use a 3/8 to ½ inch stroke on your engine. Will likely run on one tea candle and be just too hot to touch on the bottom plate.
1. Ten to one is approximate, anything close to that will work as LTD. The difference will be in the temperature differential required for operation. If the swept volumes are closer in size, you will need more heat. A very large displacer will require a very small differential to run however, the added mass of the large displacer will at some point prevent the engine from running due to the power required to move it. Ten to one is a good middle ground but may not run from the heat of your hand, that kind of engine MUST be very low friction and usually won’t spin very fast under those conditions.
2. Your power piston is too big, it may work if heated enough but you might have over-heating damage from the first “run”. I would use 3/8 th diameter and about the same for length of piston or maybe a tad shorter. I would use a 3/8 to ½ inch stroke on your engine. Will likely run on one tea candle and be just too hot to touch on the bottom plate.
Re: Stirling Engine Gamma LTD
Hi you doing colleages,
Thankyou for sharing knowledgements on S.E. of different configurations , more than 3.
I´ll be short respecting others space.
1.- In Alpha, the optimum ratio between Volume of power piston have been stated as Vp x 1,5=Vc, Vp piston power, and Vc is vol. compression. This is not true for any alfa geometry and operating variables, If you solve Equations of state first, and as I did gathered resulting values of a running V type, built in Turkey, or in any part of world,you´ll discover that 1.5 is not a constant, is a variable as any others, depending the variables and geometry of referenced engine,First fullfill state equations,and we´ll have a surprise, as we have exponents, the influence is relevant.
2.-Good Things.
1.-MM¨s composites and achievements of MuW.Congratulations.The future of SE.
2.-Hit on the target.Ni-Chrome and NIR Infrared should eliminate gas burners.Controlable, programable, 4000 C max., controls at shops of USA.
3.-Solidworks-cad-3d, and FEA-Simulation events, the platform of mech engineering.johann
Thankyou for sharing knowledgements on S.E. of different configurations , more than 3.
I´ll be short respecting others space.
1.- In Alpha, the optimum ratio between Volume of power piston have been stated as Vp x 1,5=Vc, Vp piston power, and Vc is vol. compression. This is not true for any alfa geometry and operating variables, If you solve Equations of state first, and as I did gathered resulting values of a running V type, built in Turkey, or in any part of world,you´ll discover that 1.5 is not a constant, is a variable as any others, depending the variables and geometry of referenced engine,First fullfill state equations,and we´ll have a surprise, as we have exponents, the influence is relevant.
2.-Good Things.
1.-MM¨s composites and achievements of MuW.Congratulations.The future of SE.
2.-Hit on the target.Ni-Chrome and NIR Infrared should eliminate gas burners.Controlable, programable, 4000 C max., controls at shops of USA.
3.-Solidworks-cad-3d, and FEA-Simulation events, the platform of mech engineering.johann
Re: Stirling Engine Gamma LTD
For an ALPHA motor the ratio between the hot and cold cylinders is near enough to 1:1, displacer type motors are 1.5:1.
For a LTD motor 10:1, and up to, or maybe beyond 20:1 is OK. Ideally a graphite piston in a glass cylinder would be first choice. Second would be a cast iron piston in a cast iron cylinder, or a close second on that would be a steel cylinder, with the CI piston.
If you get it right, it will run for quite a while on a bowl of hot water. Ian S C
For a LTD motor 10:1, and up to, or maybe beyond 20:1 is OK. Ideally a graphite piston in a glass cylinder would be first choice. Second would be a cast iron piston in a cast iron cylinder, or a close second on that would be a steel cylinder, with the CI piston.
If you get it right, it will run for quite a while on a bowl of hot water. Ian S C