Stirlingengineforum.com

Fool wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2024 11:38 pm .

Can we go see it?

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There is a building permit.(From public information):

BUILDING USE: Non-habitable tower with non-occupiable equipment platforms to be accessed by personnel for maintenance of utility systems.

https://archive.northamptonma.gov/WebLi ... mpton&cr=1

There are photos of the tower on the website.

https://flooidpower.com/power-generation/

(Click on thumbnails)

https://flooidpower.com/wp-content/uplo ... 8x1024.jpg

The location specified in the permit is visible on Google Earth: (screenshot from my phone, just now)
So, I would say it is physically possible.

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_refrigeration

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There is a 2018 US patent application: Granted 2020.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US201 ... 0190063396

It appears from the provisional that originally the air, upon reaching the top was simply vented to atmosphere, either directly or through an Organic Rankine Cycle Generator. At least in certain embodiments.

Other versions, it seems, recirculate the air.

Additional associated patents:

https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Mark+J.+Maynard

Fool wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2024 11:27 am .

Tom you seem to have a flair for following scams of over unity. Haven't you learned by now how to determine fraudulent, too good to be true, claims? Go ahead invest in Flooid. Loosing money in the scam may just wise you up.

I'm still waiting for data, and a working model. I'm not holding my breath, nor wasting any time, other than entertainment.

LOL people.

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Thanks for the concern, but there is really no chance of loosing money I don't actually have.

My providing what information I come across on this subject is not intended as "promotion".

I have had my eye on this however:

https://www.facebook.com/share/UC849QSNRFCHx7RJ/

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Wow. Still running. 100 years old.

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Fool wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:44 am .

Wow. Still running. 100 years old.

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Yes, and 8" bore. An extreme rarity I believe. And only a few hours drive from here where I live. Already mounted on a trailer for transport I think. For taking to shows.

There is video of it running and pumping water if logged in to Facebook marketplace, but those don't seem available through the "share" link for some reason.

It has a wood stove type firebox.

Not the greatest video, screen captured off the Facebook ad:

https://youtube.com/shorts/zN-ynvJBdsI

Anyway, as far as the Flooid system.

I'm interested and looking into it with an open mind to the possibility that it actually has passed "beyond proof of concept".

The U.S. Patent office, in the past, has not been known to issue patents for inventions that might be considered "perpetual motion" without at least some sort of working model.

There is also quite a number of individuals as well as government regulatory bodies, utility companies etc. that have been involved with this project over the years.

I have yet to see incontrovertible "proof" that the system produces a net positive energy output, or that it ever functioned at all, other than that the people making the claim, seem sincere, committed and generally enthusiastic.

But having an open mind and looking into the available facts and making an overall, objective but critical examination of the technology is not an endorsement,

Just because I'm not dismissing it offhand does not mean I'm "promoting" it either.

But if it were an outright "scam", I think it's a little strange that none of the employees of the company or any of the contractors, building inspectors, engineers, suppliers, government officials etc etc. directly involved over the course of ten years has blown the whistle.

On the other hand, there are a number of things that strike me as a bit odd, or not what I would expect to see if the thing actually worked as described.

For example, 10 kilowatt could light up a football field or run a dozen or so space heaters or an entire house.

Someone could rather easily shoot a video of the thing in operation actually producing power, but so far, when I enquired about any such evidence Mr Schwartz had to take another call.

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From the first photo in this thread, I can see it working, but only with the following constraints:

It must be solar powered. Sun power is dependent on the area perpendicular to the sun. Height times width.

The injected gas must be cold after being compressed.

The rising fluid must be hot.

The hot gas at the top must be exhausted.

If the hot gas is collected it must be cooled before recompression.

The compressors must cool the gas during compression.

Any recuperated energy would need to be added to the cold gas as it is injected, after compression.

The fluid must have a low enough viscosity so it will turn a turbine efficiently.

Heat pumps alone won't produce over unity power. The can't be used to hear the fluid.

It must operate between a supplied hot source, solar, and a supplied cold source, cooling tower, shade, pumped cold water.

It has happened that the patent office has been dupped by over unity contraptions that are sufficiently disguised.

Contractors don't care why a device is being built. Just pay. Most have no thermodynamics knowledge.

The proof will be in powering the pumps and compressor from the generated power, and have a net surplus.

Inspectors only look for building codes, not for functionality.

If it works, it will not corroborate all the advertised claims.

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A fairly recent podcast:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2e3sCW ... zjXPuM-Dfg


I don't actually have time to listen to the whole thing today, it's over an hour.

Initially, though, it seems there is no immediately deliverable product.

He says it is not for households but the minimum size would be a utility serving 11 thousand homes and would take five years...

Very far removed from the inventors earlier video where he makes mention of a small "laboratory size" device. And how do you actually demonstrate a "proof of concept" such as the relatively small 100' tower up in the woods said to have produced 10kw but need a minimum of 1000 times that output, and need 5 more years to produce what was demonstrated 10 years ago....

Things don't add up.

I'd like to talk to the inventor but Schwartz seems to be acting as his "handler" or something has derailed this project from its original humanitarian goals, that included small systems for individual homes, small businesses and local communities primarily, according to the video I retrieved from the old website on the Wayback Machne.

Now you will be paying for this through your existing utility or not at all, according to statements early on in thia podcast.

My guess is, it worked on a small scale. The inventor proved it The Oil or whomever company tried everything to buy him out without success.

Now he is surrounded by handlers keeping him and his invention under wraps until they figure out a way to monopolize it.

Same way INFINIA morphed into Qnergy.

Fool wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 10:19 am
From the first photo in this thread, I can see it working...

OP is similar this basic KPP scam (Kinetic Power Plant)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68nRS8VckUE


Most of these buoyancy schemes prey on several facts that are more obscure than heat engine issues.

When a ship sinks, you don't want to be near it to avoid being "sucked under". However, the sinking sink is not 'sucking' anything akin Tom buzz. Instead, the escaping air merely displaces some water, whereupon this bubbling water is lighter than surrounding non-bubbling water, so anything caught in this bubbling water will have less buoyancy.

My problem with OP is similar this KPP scam. Consider KPP scheme is 2 tubes like flooid scheme with air pumped in near base of up tube. Since air bubbles expand during ascent, if we assume the AVERAGE displacement of water in up tube is 50%, then this 50-50% air-water up tube volume equals 2x the 100% water down tube volume. If we further assume down tube water is descending at a constant speed equal up tube water at bottom prior air injection, then after air injection, this ascent speed will accelerate if both tubes are the same diameter.

As Vincent recently pointed out, regardless of bubbles, the pressure at bottom of both tubes will be the same...unless the up tube has 'slugs' of air separating slugs of water (aka lift pump). IOW simply fizzing some air into water column will not effect water pressure anywhere in water column, but even fizzing water will lift 'some' water. The bottom line with this simple analysis is that the ENERGY force required to pump air into the bottom of a water column is effected more by the PRESSURE force of the water column than the "weight".

Returning to the flooid scheme/scam, the air expands during ascent and we can consider this isothermal expansion via ambient input. This is where the schmooze starts creeping in...where we're supposed to believe that some type of heat engine effect is doing most of the 'heavy lifting' due to this expansive "work". Now, if we consider an ideal air lift pump with slugs of air injected at bottom and with isothermal heating during ascent, then as the water slugs ascend, each air slug looses pressure with each air slug only having the pressure of the air-water column above it. I'm surprised that Fool hasn't worked out this energy balance yet, I just don't care to.

matt brown wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 2:35 pm ...

OP is similar this basic KPP scam (Kinetic Power Plant)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68nRS8VckUE


My problem with OP is similar this KPP scam. ....

Returning to the flooid scheme/scam,...

Scam Scam, scam...

My question is, why would anyone choose to try to make a living with such an elaborate "scam" that had to cost who knows how many hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars to construct and set up in the first place just to try to trick people out of some money?

https://youtu.be/f8of-nXiqQU

And if you can create a "scam" that is apparently impossible to detect under close extended scrutiny using all kinds of meters, infrared cameras looking for hidden wires that can't be detected etc. It seems like such genius could be applied to something other than trying to land in jail for fraud.

https://youtu.be/6wvH86gOx3o

"Scam" my ass.

All these people apparently installing these systems for the past five years, "scammers" proudly displaying their faces and names?

https://www.ki-tech.global/about-us

IMO, that is all more improbable than the technology being real, as improbable as that may be.

These KPP "scam" artists make the Flooid guys look like amateurs.

Flooid has a lot of catching up to do if they are going to compete in the scam boyancy motor "free energy" system installation market

All in all, the Flooid system seems more elegant.

The KPP contraption has thousands of moving parts, chain links, gears, valves that have to couple and decouple continuously, seals, all those canisters on pivots going around. etc.

The Flooid system has one moving part, the turbine.

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Matt, thanks for adding another scam to the mix.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... w2JPVGsAnX

It never seems to amaze me how many and how elaborate scams are. But what really amazes me is how many idiots follow them.

The scam isn't that the up pump and down turbine won't generate electric power. It will. The scam is that it won't generate electrical power enough to power the pumps. That is easily overcome by connecting it to the grid, and claiming the observed power is going out when it is clearly coming in.

Lying that a company has lots of respected followers and investors, is still lying.

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