Air Lift Turbine Generator

[Tom Booth]

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The John Crawley connection sure is nonsense. Thanks.

Are you completely demented?

He's management at Ki-Tech.

john_crowley.jpg (279.84 KiB) Viewed 1452 times

And it's Crowley not Crawley.

[Tom Booth]

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Likewise, in the real world air released from an air tank expands, but that is beside the point.

Good. That is the point. The volume gets larger, so the new volume needs to be incorporated in the calculation. As I stated in my first attempt to help you in calculating the end temperature. Temperature doesn't go as low as just a pressure change would appear, because volume gets larger.

I am schooled in 1980's thermodynamics. An improvement by 160 additional years of science and mathematical improvement. You have no education remotely close to the study I've done. And you are denying it and me, and anyone else that you don't understand and disagree with. Take a step back. It isn't that hard to learn, it's just slightly painful.

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1980's thermodynamics is still1820's obsolete Carnot nonsense.

I'm quite sure "Goofy' here, who is a trained Marine engineer knows exactly what I'm talking about.

So in your "gas always pushes" world, how do you explain dry ice; solid CO2 forming from gaseous CO2 as the gas expands after being released from compression in a fire extinguisher into a cloth bag.

https://youtu.be/tLNHDxd6nDc

[Tom Booth]

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The John Crawley connection sure is nonsense. Thanks.

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Here is some proof numb nuts.

https://en.unesco.org/inclusivepolicyla ... hn-crowley

John Crowley's profile on UNESCO.

See the little blue Twitter logo?

It leads to the same twitter now X account of the same John Crowley.

Now maybe you can explain how the "real' John Crowley (UNESCO) managed to accidently link his Twitter to some scammer/free energy John Crowley impersonators' fake Twitter account.

A Twitter account that is also linked to his business website PHGD Group, which just somehow happens to also feature the kPP "scam" Ki-Tech on the PHGD "Who We Are" page.

https://phgd.group/fr_fr/index.php/about/

[Fool]

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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QrHlwgmMTq4

For a manager of Ki-Tech John Crowley sure doesn't talk much about it. And does ever talk about PKK? Again I don't X.

CO2 is liquid in the bottle. You figure out how it becomes a solid by Jouel-Thommson expansion.

What you are talking about is erroneous. If anyone claims to understand it, it isn't because it makes any sense. Claiming someone understands you is moot, since you are in error.

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[Fool]

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https://www.cganet.com/carbon-dioxide-d ... e%20formed.

Solid carbon dioxide is manufactured by decreasing the pressure of liquid CO2 until the point at which dry ice and cold vapor are formed.

In other words, solid CO2 isn't made from CO2 gas it comes from liquid. The gas just removes energy and stays a gas.

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[Tom Booth]

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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QrHlwgmMTq4

For a manager of Ki-Tech John Crowley sure doesn't talk much about it. And does ever talk about PKK?

Of course not.

They used to talk about more openly about it 10 years ago, but were relentlessly attacked by "fools". Moronic "scientists" and idiots in general harassing them and all their potential customers and investors and partners, trying to dig up dirt, meddling in their personal and business lives etc. etc. hell bent on doing everything possible to portray it as a "scam", which you and Matt and many others continue to try to do even now, because of your stupidity and complete scientific ignorance.

So they just quietly carry on in relative obscurity, to avoid attacks from people like YOU as much as possible.

CO2 is liquid in the bottle. You figure out how it becomes a solid by Jouel-Thommson expansion.

What you are talking about is erroneous. If anyone claims to understand it, it isn't because it makes any sense. Claiming someone understands you is moot, since you are in error.

There is liquid CO2 in the fire extinguisher, but what comes out is CO2 gas that has already "boiled" reaching your so-called "escape velocity" even before leaving the tank. Classical thermodynamics does not recognize the Joule-Thomson effect. That is non-ideal (or REAL) gas behavior that the Kinetic theory does not recognize.

So now you are saying I'm wrong by saying I'm right and I need to "figure out" what I've been saying all along ?

Joule-Thomson applied to the expansion of a GAS moron.

[Tom Booth]

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https://www.cganet.com/carbon-dioxide-d ... e%20formed.

Solid carbon dioxide is manufactured by decreasing the pressure of liquid CO2 until the point at which dry ice and cold vapor are formed.

In other words, solid CO2 isn't made from CO2 gas it comes from liquid. The gas just removes energy and stays a gas.

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Let's see now: "Solid carbon dioxide is manufactured by decreasing the pressure of liquid CO2 until the point at which dry ice and cold vapor are formed"

Reducing the pressure....

....cold vapor

From liquid to solid...

That all seems like confirmation of what I've been saying. Lowering the pressure results in "cooling" and a reversal phase change from gas to liquid or liquid to solid or in the case of CO2 gas directly to solid.

NOT "expansion forever" as you erroneously imagine or believe.

Read it again:

"Solid carbon dioxide is manufactured by decreasing the pressure of liquid CO2 until the point at which dry ice and cold vapor are formed"

[Tom Booth]

You get a similar effect in the KPP buoyancy engine when the compressed air is finally released into the canisters.

The gas expands isothermally, but also doing "work" converting heat into mechanical energy via buoyancy to drive a generator.

The heat transfers are so perfectly balanced as to be easily overlooked.

The steel pipe transporting compressed air to the canisters in the bottom of the tank is continually generating heat by the Proell effect or "secondary compression".

So that "heat of compression" is immediately removed to the ambient surroundings as well as directly into the tank water through the Proell effect, making compression very easy so the compressor can run very efficiently due to the near instantaneous heat removal.

The heat is then absorbed by the expanding air in the tank, contributing to boyancy which also keeps the tank water relatively cool, also contributing to the buoyancy of the canisters.

The whole thing is an ambient heat engine converting ambient heat into an electrical power output.

It's the same principle I've been talking about in here for years and years, but instead of using the ambient heat to run a Stirling engine they are using it to run a buoyancy engine.

The KPP system is essentially a massive "Drinking Bird" in principle. A combination heat pump + heat engine.

The simplicity of the KPP system is admirable IMO as it is so low tech.

A buoyancy engine is, in many ways, more economical to build on a large scale than a Stirling engine. You don't need a precision Stirling engine, just a huge water tank, or just a hole in the ground or a lake.

[Fool]

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Your erroneous conclusion that attempts to validate PKK, is based on the slippery slope logical fallacy that CO2 extinguishers, that produce dry ice, eject gas. They don't. They eject liquid. The liquid begins cooling off by boiling. Similar to water put in a vacuum. The boiling temperature at 1 atmosphere is well below the freezing point at 1 atmosphere.

Please learn what a dip tube is, also called a siphon cylinder, and how it works to eject liquid.

Alternately try operating a CO2 cylinder, right side up, and again upside down. Some CO2 cylinders have dip tubes, some do not. Most, maybe all, CO2 fire extinguishers, with the large horn, have dip tubes to deliver liquid. If not they would deliver 'dry' CO2. The horn is there to protect the operator from frostbite. Boiling liquid CO2 is way faster at causing frostbite than dry ice snow.

Please learn more.

The rest is based on that fallacy. PKK is a scam, otherwise they would be here defending it with more lies.

Persecution is not their problem. Lies are their problem. Their own lies.

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[Fool]

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Additionally, some propane tanks have a dip tube, or a bottom tap. It is called a 'wet leg'. It is used for refilling other tanks. It has a risk of freezing and frostbite. I installed a wet leg on my home tank.

Some propane powered vehicles are connected to that wet leg. They can also be installed with an evaporator, boiler, or vaporizer, to add heat from engine, to the liquid.

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[Tom Booth]

All inapplicable and/or erroneous conjecture on your part, apparently.

All sources I've looked at say the CO2 is discharged as a GAS

Just for example:

CO2_GAS.jpg (411.8 KiB) Viewed 1295 times

https://www.marineinsight.com/marine-sa ... -on-ships/

And no I'm not "cherry picking", but I'm not scouring the internet to try and find confirmation for your baseless opinion either.

Further my "attempts to validate PKK" is NOT "based on" anything regarding how CO2 fire extinguishers operate. That's just an example of a well known principle in the field of gas liquefaction generally that has been discussed many many times on the forum previously.

Gases are often liquified by compression followed by adiabatic expansion.

Putting a pillow case over the fire extinguisher nozzle provides some insulation so the CO2 gas expands adiabatically, without picking up heat from the surroundings. This causes the gas to cool as it expands so that it becomes cold enough to contract and condense into a liquid, or in the case of CO2 gas, into a solid.

If anyone here needs to "learn more" it's your completely ignorant stupid ass. Moron.

[Fool]

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Gasses can't be liquefied by compression alone. Merely compressing a gas puts it above the critical temperature. It must be cooled sometimes only as low as ambient. For nitrogen, ambient isn't low enough.

That picture you posted shows the dip tube. That delivers liquid to outside, just like an aerosol paint can.

Everyone here needs to learn. You are the only one in denial and failing to learn.

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[Tom Booth]

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Gasses can't be liquefied by compression alone. Merely compressing a gas puts it above the critical temperature. It must be cooled sometimes only as low as ambient. For nitrogen, ambient isn't low enough.

That picture you posted shows the dip tube

Yes it does, so what? The explanation is in the text as shown. "The liquid changes to gas..."

You've got a real gas problem.

Why don't you try studying up on how gases are liquified so that they can be put into canisters, like fire extinguishers in the first place.

You're problem is you're so clueless you don't have the capacity or self awareness to know or find out just how hopelessly clueless you really are.

A completely brain dead moron. Head so full of 1820's obsolete science no room left for anything more advanced.

Head so full of "ideal" gas law nonsense, no room in your brain left to comprehend REAL gas behavior.

. That delivers liquid to outside, just like an aerosol paint can.

Everyone here needs to learn. You are the only one in denial and failing to learn.

[Fool]

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Yes it does, so what? The explanation is in the text as shown. "The liquid changes to gas..."

The liquid changes to both gas and solid. But it comes out as liquid, and turns to both in the atmosphere. It is briefly liquid at one atmosphere, super cooled liquid.

Look at the phase diagram. CO2 liquid at very high pressures flash boils and decreases in temperature, as the temperature of the liquid goes below the freezing temperature at 1 atmosphere, it well... Freezes.

You will not be able to explain how cold gas upon expanding more suddenly becomes frozen by having it's density and freezing point decreased. But go ahead give a quackery reason for it.

It is awful how much quack descriptions are on the Internet in fire extinguisher and fire fighter sites. This is beyond simple quack authority. You must think for yourself. Please use science/mathematics/logic to understand the process of going from a high pressure liquid to a low pressure solid, and gas. Use the phase diagram. Turn a propane tank upside down and see the difference. Use a little one the new 5 gallon bigger ones have a position valve that stops the flow if inverted. Find out why it is impossible to make dry ice from dry gas. Liquid expulsion is necessary, and is the purpose of the siphon cylinder.

Get a can of refrigerant for recharging a car A/C. Try blasting it upside down and right side up. See which is colder. In electronics repair it is called 'freeze spray'.

https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Sup ... 687&sr=8-4

The cans of automotive refrigerant at Walmart were cheaper but don't come with a convenient spray nozzle and need to be inverted to 'freeze'.


You will never understand thermodynamics until you understand a phase diagrams, and how to use it. Learn what different processes look like on it. The same goes for all the other diagrams and processes.

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[Tom Booth]

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Yes it does, so what? The explanation is in the text as shown. "The liquid changes to gas..."

The liquid changes to both gas and solid. But it comes out as liquid, and turns to both in the atmosphere. It is briefly liquid at one atmosphere, super cooled liquid.

Look at the phase diagram. CO2 liquid at very high pressures flash boils and decreases in temperature, as the temperature of the liquid goes below the freezing temperature at 1 atmosphere, it well... Freezes.

You will not be able to explain how cold gas upon expanding more suddenly becomes frozen by having it's density and freezing point decreased. But go ahead give a quackery reason for it.

It is awful how much quack descriptions are on the Internet in fire extinguisher and fire fighter sites. This is beyond simple quack authority. You must think for yourself. Please use science/mathematics/logic to understand the process of going from a high pressure liquid to a low pressure solid, and gas. Use the phase diagram. Turn a propane tank upside down and see the difference. Use a little one the new 5 gallon bigger ones have a position valve that stops the flow if inverted. Find out why it is impossible to make dry ice from dry gas. Liquid expulsion is necessary, and is the purpose of the siphon cylinder.

Get a can of refrigerant for recharging a car A/C. Try blasting it upside down and right side up. See which is colder. In electronics repair it is called 'freeze spray'.

https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Sup ... 687&sr=8-4

The cans of automotive refrigerant at Walmart were cheaper but don't come with a convenient spray nozzle and need to be inverted to 'freeze'.


You will never understand thermodynamics until you understand a phase diagrams, and how to use it. Learn what different processes look like on it. The same goes for all the other diagrams and processes.

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You're an ignorant lunkhead.

Get a life.