Does you know of any 'consumer' uses of Stirling Engines. Not NASA stuff, or 10 degree Kelvin iceboxes, but things that regular people might use in their houses. I have looked, and found nothing so far.
Question 2 - If not, why not?
Commercial uses for Stirling Engines(?)
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Guest
New guy full of opinions.
Coleman makes a stirling cooler/refridgerator. Uses a rotary version though. I've seen refridgerators on a few websites, mainly for marine applications. They use the rotary type also but their goal is to move refridgerant so as to remove heat. They're very economical but still costly to produce.
It would be cool to find one of the antique outdoor wood fuel driven ones. I'd use it to burn junkmail credit card applications and have it turning a low rpm alternator to charge my boat batteries.....
Coleman makes a stirling cooler/refridgerator. Uses a rotary version though. I've seen refridgerators on a few websites, mainly for marine applications. They use the rotary type also but their goal is to move refridgerant so as to remove heat. They're very economical but still costly to produce.
It would be cool to find one of the antique outdoor wood fuel driven ones. I'd use it to burn junkmail credit card applications and have it turning a low rpm alternator to charge my boat batteries.....
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stanhbaker
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:14 pm
- Location: KnoxTn
Household Stirling Spplication
At one time BE (Before Elictrification) Stirling engines power phonographs, sewing machines and fans. Electric motors replaced them as they were ready at a moments notice and flexible in operation.
The "Kyko" fan was made and sold in both the USA and GB in the early 1900's, and were still being made in Pakistan as late as circa 1975. A few replicas were manufactured in the 1990's. 20" or 22" blades 400 rpm ran all day on a liter of kerosene.
The "Kyko" fan was made and sold in both the USA and GB in the early 1900's, and were still being made in Pakistan as late as circa 1975. A few replicas were manufactured in the 1990's. 20" or 22" blades 400 rpm ran all day on a liter of kerosene.
Why be difficult?.. When with just a little application you can be absolutely difficult!
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Dave Autrey
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:32 am
strickly commercial
My wife and I were discussing this over coffee this am. the uses, and utility, what we decided is this: it makes little sense to view these as a fix of anything, if they burn fuel. and I'm assuming that most folks viewing this are of that mind, fixing the situation as it exsist, here and now. Reverend John and his friends had their reasons for the technology, we got ours.
My wife was underwhelmed with the power they would produce considering the managment of such a system, considering now she merely plugs in to grid, and they do all the work. Not impressed at all.
I like the idea of a stirling made from fifty five gallon drums (because I think it is my idea) two chambers placed on ends of a beam, and a double acting power cylinder. For heat, a black tube solar pool heater in a closed loop, not given too much thought to a "supercharger" on the cool side, you know some way of enhancing ambient a notch or two.
With a hefty flywheel, something along the lines of a John Deer one-bangers-side-flywheel, I figure it could be a couple horse rig. Or just one horse, nothing to sneeze at, imo, Not for the average suburban back yard, but in a rural setting it could make a little sense. One horse all day is a bit of work. Not something you are going to reach out and stop with your hand. Not that it would fling you, but you would stub something.
And there are bigger tanks out there, bigger than 55 gallon, what is to say a 1000 gallon tank could not be hooked up? make a big beam, opposed chambers, counter balancing each other, and flywheel to match. Call it the big whoosher. If you had the space to dedicate, it could make a twenty horse, ok, ten horse, my wife snorts at these numbers, I would hate to get caught up in something that made ten horse, it is not to be trifled with, lot of energy. lot of work. and figure it for functioning all day, every sunny day, tons of work.
My wife was underwhelmed with the power they would produce considering the managment of such a system, considering now she merely plugs in to grid, and they do all the work. Not impressed at all.
I like the idea of a stirling made from fifty five gallon drums (because I think it is my idea) two chambers placed on ends of a beam, and a double acting power cylinder. For heat, a black tube solar pool heater in a closed loop, not given too much thought to a "supercharger" on the cool side, you know some way of enhancing ambient a notch or two.
With a hefty flywheel, something along the lines of a John Deer one-bangers-side-flywheel, I figure it could be a couple horse rig. Or just one horse, nothing to sneeze at, imo, Not for the average suburban back yard, but in a rural setting it could make a little sense. One horse all day is a bit of work. Not something you are going to reach out and stop with your hand. Not that it would fling you, but you would stub something.
And there are bigger tanks out there, bigger than 55 gallon, what is to say a 1000 gallon tank could not be hooked up? make a big beam, opposed chambers, counter balancing each other, and flywheel to match. Call it the big whoosher. If you had the space to dedicate, it could make a twenty horse, ok, ten horse, my wife snorts at these numbers, I would hate to get caught up in something that made ten horse, it is not to be trifled with, lot of energy. lot of work. and figure it for functioning all day, every sunny day, tons of work.
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SScandizzo
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 5:06 pm
- Location: California
Much of the material you read about Stirling engines describes them as "low power" machines. Unfortunately, this depiction is often taken out of context.
Keep in mind that the variety of heat sources is very broad; from petrolium products, to natural gas, to biomatter (wood, ethenol, etc.) to direct solar radiation. Some of these sources produce little or no emmisions and when designed well, a Stirling engine nearly doubles the power output of an internal combustion engine.
I absolutely agree that at the scale they are built today they generate only modest amounts of useful energy. But then again, why should a manufacturer bother with the costs of developing the Stirling when other engines have been refined for decades and in some cases centuries. The presumed costs still appear to outweigh the benefits.
If you look around on the net, you'll find that Stirlings have been developed to run submarines, tractors, and even heat and cool homes. They certainly have the capability to do more: it's just a matter of application.
I think the ultimate irony in your wife's sentiment is that at the beginning of the twentieth century, her exact thoughts could be applied to the Otto cycle engine. How could they possibly replace the powerful steam engines of the time? Be patient. After all, the first model T had only 20 hp and the Wright Brothers? About 12.
-Stefan
Keep in mind that the variety of heat sources is very broad; from petrolium products, to natural gas, to biomatter (wood, ethenol, etc.) to direct solar radiation. Some of these sources produce little or no emmisions and when designed well, a Stirling engine nearly doubles the power output of an internal combustion engine.
I absolutely agree that at the scale they are built today they generate only modest amounts of useful energy. But then again, why should a manufacturer bother with the costs of developing the Stirling when other engines have been refined for decades and in some cases centuries. The presumed costs still appear to outweigh the benefits.
If you look around on the net, you'll find that Stirlings have been developed to run submarines, tractors, and even heat and cool homes. They certainly have the capability to do more: it's just a matter of application.
I think the ultimate irony in your wife's sentiment is that at the beginning of the twentieth century, her exact thoughts could be applied to the Otto cycle engine. How could they possibly replace the powerful steam engines of the time? Be patient. After all, the first model T had only 20 hp and the Wright Brothers? About 12.
-Stefan
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Dave Autrey
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:32 am
wifes additude
Yes, I believe you may be right, that patience is what is needed... Maybe. Or a welder and a few trips to the scrap heap. No, wait, I guess with sheet metal of the gauge of 55's, a four ought tip on the 'ol oxyacln would fly better; Not a sears and robuck buzz box. OXYATC, That takes time, all day or weekend for one shuttle, easy.
Patients with the questions too, whats he building in there?
Not familiar enough with the numbers to know exactly what to expect of the fifty five gallon drum rig. would be about, what, thirty odd gallons per side of contained volume, and what would be a generous number for a pool heater, gain of 50 degF? Have no idea what the presure dif would be at that temp, maybe a couple inches of water? Too generous? Acting on a piston maybe three by three inches of stroke, how much force would that be? I vaguely recall fap and vap.
May be better things to hunt, other than 55's. stuff that would just glide togeather with little refit? somebody pointed to water well accumulator tanks at Tracktor Supply, good for truck load orders.
I got a video a few years back from Lindsays publications, the nice guy in the video had a propane ring on his table-sized unit, and the heat sink was just to ambient and the thing was buzzing on the table, I would guess, heck couldn't guess how many cycles, over one or two a second for sure. So the heat moves quicker than I intuit. Using a non concentrated heat sorce like black tubes, I suppose it would be slower, or am I mistaken? The rate remaining fast across the range of temprature would be good news, no?
Still in the back of my mind is something that would require block and tackle to assemble, to set containment, shuttle and beam, whip out the 50 inch cresent wrench, watch your toes. Big whoosher.
A friend suggested radiators from small cars for radiant source in the containment, as well as heat sink chiller in cool side. I remember also something about through-holes in the shuttle. Whoosh factor fanning? Can not think of any car radiators that would drop in a 55, maybe motorcycle radiators, or car evaps, and shunt tourque from itself (car starter ring)? to use with simple pumps on the scale of sump pumps handy from many sources. but even with a chilled heat sink on the low side, it is still well under an atmos of dif, is it not? Not too much chance of oil canning and rubbing the shuttle? Rigging the strokes and such, patients.
Or maybe some discoveries about containment sizes have been made? Any good mixes and matches to hunt for, any seen for bigger than tin can units? only reason I'm thinking 55's is I have them all around me, with a few 95's, 25's 30's. nothing requiring a crane or block and takle. All in all, this rig taking form in my mind, it will be easy enough to create acurately, just scale up these toys a notch. The barrel makers, the guys who manuf. possibly they could create a double ended ring topped barrel for us? would facilitate service and assembly. maybe even a custom run of shuttle size. Or maybe it is time to whip out a peice of chalk and start cutting on barrels, too noisy to chisel and rivet on. And the big thick pretty sleeves out of diesels, not tomention the pistons... what else, oh, pump jack head off the old ones from back in the day, sitting and rusting in yards all over west Texas. they would work, having the cable wrapping the radius of the beam ends. The fulcrum bearings too,seals and such from the pump jacks may work well, for the containment seal on big rigs, but for 55's, longer shock strut shafts, shiny and chrome. What is the longest out in the car world? Truck world? would make a lovely cottage industry for a salvage yard, retrieving the shafts. Have not stared at seals in many moons. Chevrons or U-cups. Or bearings, big slip-fit faffners.... crank pins from plain old bolt-thru hardware. But they are out there.
I decided on the double verticle config for what I guess are pretty good reasons. still up in the air about the plumbing and crank rigging on the double acting cyl. might be smoother to stick with the two abient sided, sticking out of the 55's sides, for the power cyl.
Seen some pretty exotic configs out there, big flywheel and only two pins appeals to me. 55's 55's 55's. May be a moot point if a heat source such as the gentle black tube is not the ticket. Moot, at least for me, I'm not going to fool with mirrors and non-solar burner rings. duability issues too. Not enough skills or time. Not my cup of tea. Like wise with the storage and such of the work produced. Will just put a Jethro and Uncle Jed looking sign out front, werk fer saile.
So any input on the slip fit of fifty fives, for the shuttle, or any other part ideas, post away. Only plans for my oxy acetlyn torch is garbage bag bombs on the forth, always thrills all the kids in the hood.
But this is just scaled up toy talk, what about the apps? I was at a yard that re-builds motors for compressor stations, natural gas, big six cylinder White Superiors for example, Laying on it's side, three or four hundred horse, mechanic was harping on the cheap customer, they decided they didn't want to pay for a rebuild on the motor. And he mentioned the issue of the natural gas not being up to snuff in the octane department, using it in an internal combustion engine, but it would work good in a burner ring, now, would it not? Space is not an issue in the fields so much, somebody tool up and crank out a few dozen Stirlings to get the gas field markets attention? Pump jacks too, with the stringing of the AC all over, all the poles and wire and transformers...Places that make oil tanks have the skill sets for the containment. Gas plant worker skill sets cross over good. Might make a living at it. Crossover into the waste heat market. At stack retrieval too. A potential road, no? would give the oil and gas industry a green horn to toot, no? Good argument for sales is the comparisson of stirlings to white superiors. If the numbers even work in the favor of the stirling. What do others see?
Patients with the questions too, whats he building in there?
Not familiar enough with the numbers to know exactly what to expect of the fifty five gallon drum rig. would be about, what, thirty odd gallons per side of contained volume, and what would be a generous number for a pool heater, gain of 50 degF? Have no idea what the presure dif would be at that temp, maybe a couple inches of water? Too generous? Acting on a piston maybe three by three inches of stroke, how much force would that be? I vaguely recall fap and vap.
May be better things to hunt, other than 55's. stuff that would just glide togeather with little refit? somebody pointed to water well accumulator tanks at Tracktor Supply, good for truck load orders.
I got a video a few years back from Lindsays publications, the nice guy in the video had a propane ring on his table-sized unit, and the heat sink was just to ambient and the thing was buzzing on the table, I would guess, heck couldn't guess how many cycles, over one or two a second for sure. So the heat moves quicker than I intuit. Using a non concentrated heat sorce like black tubes, I suppose it would be slower, or am I mistaken? The rate remaining fast across the range of temprature would be good news, no?
Still in the back of my mind is something that would require block and tackle to assemble, to set containment, shuttle and beam, whip out the 50 inch cresent wrench, watch your toes. Big whoosher.
A friend suggested radiators from small cars for radiant source in the containment, as well as heat sink chiller in cool side. I remember also something about through-holes in the shuttle. Whoosh factor fanning? Can not think of any car radiators that would drop in a 55, maybe motorcycle radiators, or car evaps, and shunt tourque from itself (car starter ring)? to use with simple pumps on the scale of sump pumps handy from many sources. but even with a chilled heat sink on the low side, it is still well under an atmos of dif, is it not? Not too much chance of oil canning and rubbing the shuttle? Rigging the strokes and such, patients.
Or maybe some discoveries about containment sizes have been made? Any good mixes and matches to hunt for, any seen for bigger than tin can units? only reason I'm thinking 55's is I have them all around me, with a few 95's, 25's 30's. nothing requiring a crane or block and takle. All in all, this rig taking form in my mind, it will be easy enough to create acurately, just scale up these toys a notch. The barrel makers, the guys who manuf. possibly they could create a double ended ring topped barrel for us? would facilitate service and assembly. maybe even a custom run of shuttle size. Or maybe it is time to whip out a peice of chalk and start cutting on barrels, too noisy to chisel and rivet on. And the big thick pretty sleeves out of diesels, not tomention the pistons... what else, oh, pump jack head off the old ones from back in the day, sitting and rusting in yards all over west Texas. they would work, having the cable wrapping the radius of the beam ends. The fulcrum bearings too,seals and such from the pump jacks may work well, for the containment seal on big rigs, but for 55's, longer shock strut shafts, shiny and chrome. What is the longest out in the car world? Truck world? would make a lovely cottage industry for a salvage yard, retrieving the shafts. Have not stared at seals in many moons. Chevrons or U-cups. Or bearings, big slip-fit faffners.... crank pins from plain old bolt-thru hardware. But they are out there.
I decided on the double verticle config for what I guess are pretty good reasons. still up in the air about the plumbing and crank rigging on the double acting cyl. might be smoother to stick with the two abient sided, sticking out of the 55's sides, for the power cyl.
Seen some pretty exotic configs out there, big flywheel and only two pins appeals to me. 55's 55's 55's. May be a moot point if a heat source such as the gentle black tube is not the ticket. Moot, at least for me, I'm not going to fool with mirrors and non-solar burner rings. duability issues too. Not enough skills or time. Not my cup of tea. Like wise with the storage and such of the work produced. Will just put a Jethro and Uncle Jed looking sign out front, werk fer saile.
So any input on the slip fit of fifty fives, for the shuttle, or any other part ideas, post away. Only plans for my oxy acetlyn torch is garbage bag bombs on the forth, always thrills all the kids in the hood.
But this is just scaled up toy talk, what about the apps? I was at a yard that re-builds motors for compressor stations, natural gas, big six cylinder White Superiors for example, Laying on it's side, three or four hundred horse, mechanic was harping on the cheap customer, they decided they didn't want to pay for a rebuild on the motor. And he mentioned the issue of the natural gas not being up to snuff in the octane department, using it in an internal combustion engine, but it would work good in a burner ring, now, would it not? Space is not an issue in the fields so much, somebody tool up and crank out a few dozen Stirlings to get the gas field markets attention? Pump jacks too, with the stringing of the AC all over, all the poles and wire and transformers...Places that make oil tanks have the skill sets for the containment. Gas plant worker skill sets cross over good. Might make a living at it. Crossover into the waste heat market. At stack retrieval too. A potential road, no? would give the oil and gas industry a green horn to toot, no? Good argument for sales is the comparisson of stirlings to white superiors. If the numbers even work in the favor of the stirling. What do others see?
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stanhbaker
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:14 pm
- Location: KnoxTn
Building a SE using 55 gallon drums?
Let me kindly suggest that you get your hands on some of the text books on Stirling engine theory and design before launching such a project. The ST-5 Stirling had an output of approx 5 HP and was considerably smaller and much heavier than you might expect. The hot end had to be well over 1000 deg.F to run.
Why be difficult?.. When with just a little application you can be absolutely difficult!
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spinningmagnets
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:34 pm
- Location: NW Kansas, USA
possible Stirling uses
I believe it may be possible to design a large Stirling that can use solar power from a large dish or parabolic troughs, and a fan-cooled cold end with a water mister.
I think it could power a small generator to charge a battery, pump water, or run a small mechanical air-conditioning unit.
Steam requires too much of a constant input of heat to make it easy to use solar, even with a large collector.
However in order to get "X" amout of HP from a lower heat/pressure, you must have a bigger engine.
I am working on the design for both an oil-burning steamer and a solar-Stirling, and I anticipate the Stirling will be 4 times bigger than the steamer.
I think it could power a small generator to charge a battery, pump water, or run a small mechanical air-conditioning unit.
Steam requires too much of a constant input of heat to make it easy to use solar, even with a large collector.
However in order to get "X" amout of HP from a lower heat/pressure, you must have a bigger engine.
I am working on the design for both an oil-burning steamer and a solar-Stirling, and I anticipate the Stirling will be 4 times bigger than the steamer.
