HHO, woodgas, OTTO alternative

[zhivko]

Hi everybody,

I know this is stirlingengine forum but since I know here are some quite knowledgeable guys, I want to brainstorm an idea that I have on my mind for few weeks now.
I appreciate any suggestion in style of constructive comments...

The idea comes from using woodgas in classical otto motor, but I found woodgas quite "dirty technology", I was thinking if would be possible to combine it with high temperature burner that is powered by HHO gas (brown gas as they call it).
The HHO gas burns with high temperature flame (they claim around 2000degC), and that would cause more complete "cracking" of carbohydrates stored in biomas.
The CO, H2, methane that is generateby this device would that later on be burned in classical otto motor.

The question here is energy and mass balance (of HHO and biomas) that needs to be calculated for this device.

I hope I will not be banned from forum because of mentioning otto motor :)

IMG_20131103_113823.jpg (108.35 KiB) Viewed 6810 times

Check the attached picture:


Regards,
zhivko

[brianhughes]

It might be a good idea to tread carefully before staking too much effort on Brown's gas- my own sceptical opinion is that it's fringe science. Woodgas isn't necessarily dirty- it's just that the creativity in the woodgas forums is about cracking the wood tars to CO and H2 for whatever feedstock is available. You *can* use charcoal, and produce clean engine gas with very little effort, at the expense of wasting 2/3 of the energy in the wood. Provided the moderators are happy, I can steer you in the direction of the wood gasifier groups.

[Ian S C]

I'm sure you will be ok continuing, we are always looking for a new fuel. Are you sure HHO is not H2 O, there are some who think you can run your car on H2 O. Ian S C

[derwood]

Hey, I have been wanting to comment on this for a while. I have built several wood gas generators over the last eight years. The only way I have found to eliminate the tars is to use charcoal or wood with a good filtering system. When using biomass/wood, The end result is charcoal (glowing carbon). The process of making charcoal produces the oils and tars that we don't want. When using biomass/wood , the gas producing mass of burning charcoal (glowing carbon) bakes the wood above and the low oxygen environment prevents the wood from burning, therefore producing charcoal. Although the baking wood does produce traces of methane, almost all of the flammable gases that are produced are produced by that glowing mass of carbon at the heart of the fire. The air intake is restricted, You want a low oxygen environment (not too low). The glowing mass of carbon is starving for oxygen. Remember what air is, some of the air you breath is carbon dioxide (CO2) and some of it is water (H2O). All of the oxygen that passes through the mass is instantly burned (this keeps the mass hot). When the CO2 passes through, it is stripped of it's oxygen molecules and converted into Carbon Monoxide. When the H2O passes through, it is stripped of it's oxygen molecule and converted to Hydrogen. These two flammable gases exit and go to the intake of the engine. Suction from the engine keeps the process going.

[Ian S C]

Could you get rid of the dirty part of the gas by feeding it into a gasometer, as is done with coal gas, it then of course would not be too portable. I have generated coal gas by putting it in a large paint tin with a Bunsen burner attached to the top, and sat it on an electric hot plate, the burner stayed alight for a number of hours. We have plenty of coal, about 12000 tons comes through town each day on trains, some falls off, not as much these days as there was in years gone by. Ian S C

[theropod2]

Wood gas could be collected and pressurized in a large large large propane tank. Even if not made liquid a 5,000 gallon tank could store a lot of this gas. If stored the particulates would settle out. Didn't they used to make coal gas and light entire cities with the stuff?

R

[Ian S C]

Yes , the coal gas was stored in large (like very large) vertical cylinders, like an upturned bucket, floating in water, the weight of the cylinder gave the pressure. The gas was used for heating, and cooking, and before wide spread electricity, lighting, including street lights. It did tend to be a bit smelly. Ian S C