Air Lift Turbine Generator

[Fool]

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Simultaneous cooling and compression.

I'm still waiting to see that done.

They haven't shown how to save all the heat from a compressor, or proven they can do it.

There are patents. Maybe in there they show the mythical contraption.

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[Fool]

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Tom no matter what is done with the heat removed during, regeneration or compression, the gas still needs to reject heat. My original comment still holds.

It shows very definitively that the gas is, will be, both heated and cooled.

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[Tom Booth]

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Simultaneous cooling and compression.

I'm still waiting to see that done.

They haven't shown how to save all the heat from a compressor, or proven they can do it.

There are patents. Maybe in there they show the mythical contraption.

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Now it's a "mythical contraption"?

Lost your enthusiasm?

Modern industrial compressors compress and cool the air/gas simultaneously quite effectively. Any compressor does to some extent.

The condenser tubes on a refrigerator for example. The refrigerant is compressed into the cooling tubes, usually cooled by a fan.

Larger compressors use water cooling, often within the compressor housing.

[Tom Booth]

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Tom no matter what is done with the heat removed during, regeneration or compression, the gas still needs to reject heat. My original comment still holds.

It shows very definitively that the gas is, will be, both heated and cooled.

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Your "original comment" is based on your infatuation with obsolete 1820's caloric theory nonsense.

Obviously you will never learn.

Heat is your energy source. You imagine there is some advantage to throwing it away. Not!

The heat isn't "thrown away". It's used to expand the cold air, to lift and circulate the water.

[Fool]

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Now it's a "mythical contraption"?

It sure is. LOL

I don't know why this is so difficult for you. A refrigerator and a compressor work better, more efficient, if in a colder atmosphere. If you use either to warm a room to a higher temperature than outside, your compressor will be running hotter, using more energy for the same compression. The gas will need to be cooled, or be hotter. The diagram specifically said hot gas is captured, cool gas is injected. If you warm the compressor, as such, you will be substituting scavenging rejected heat, for less efficiency. It is a break even proposition, at best.

Heat is your energy source. You imagine there is some advantage to throwing it away. Not!

Temperature difference is your energy source. Temperature difference allows heat to flow into an engine. Heat is not something, it is a description of how external energy moves into internal energy.

Your infatuation with mystical 'over Carnot', is blinding you to observable data, and easy logic and mathematics. Those stubborn beliefs have produced, in you, a massive denial of science. You spread those falsehoods everywhere. I keep correcting your misconceptions and misleadings. Please learn. Stop being so blinded and stubborn.

The term is rejected. The heat comes from the increased internal energy from compression. If not cooled, it requires more back work. Ultimately as much as forward work. That is zero efficiency and zero work output, minus, on top of all that loss, frictional losses too. Friction and thermodynamic losses, happens to the point, Senft's comment, "most engines get less than 50% of Carnot.". Carnot is ideal, reality is significantly worse.

If you deny that consistently observed scientific fact, you are a science denier.

I'm still waiting for your mythical over Carnot contraption or even equal to Carnot. Please remit.

The heat isn't "thrown away". It's used to expand the cold air, to lift and circulate the water.

That is impossible. Cooling the compressor air down to atmospheric temperature can in no way then be used to heat fluid to 600F. Unless you have a mythical 'cold to hot pink invisible unicorn' contraption. Good luck with that.

If they put in a regenerator, maybe. Again, they haven't described one.

The heat isn't wasted if the heat needs to be rejected. It's just the price that needs to be paid to produce work in a warm atmosphere. If it were Pluto's atmosphere, you would not be complaining about an efficiency 95% or there abouts. If you used it to heat up your house on Pluto, the engine efficiency would drop to 20% or less. That would be just like on Earth

Your inability to work, or visualize experiments outside a warm pressurized atmosphere, leaves you empiricists to a stubborn unfactual denial of science.

That is tantamount to an empiricist's denial that the Earth is round because they can't fly into space. Thank you, I now have empirical evidence why science is more than empirics. Good job. That puts mathematics solidly in the realm of science. Thanks.

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[Tom Booth]

.....
That is impossible....
....

Your kind of stupidity, ignorance and 1820's limited "that's impossible" mindset is what sinks this and every other kind of startup, invention or stepping stone of human progress, killing the baby in in the cradle.

That's all you do on this forum day after day. It's the only thing you've done here. You think you're a hero, "saving" or "educating" everyone, getting satisfaction out of killing ideas, hopes and dreams and spreading alarming lies and discouragement.

You're the worst sort of vile scum.

[VincentG]

It's a clever pitch but I think it's dead on arrival.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJHrr21UvY8

[Tom Booth]

Another article:

A Flooid power plant is not dependent on fossil fuels, sunlight or wind...

It works by pulling heat from the air and then converting it into electricity.

“There’s an enormous amount of energy right here in the air. People don’t realize it,” he said.

...Air from the atmosphere is compressed, and heat generated by the compressors is sent to the heat pumps and converted into electricity.
...
Maynard came up with the idea of what would become the Flooid system in 2012-13, and even he didn’t think it would work.

“I thought that I was wrong,” he said.

The numbers for his projections did not seem possible, and there was no shortage of experts willing to tell him so.

“I spent four years talking to thermodynamic experts, physicists at MIT, the University of Massachusetts, Syracuse University and a few others. Nobody got it,” he said.

It wasn’t until Jon McGowan, a professor of mechanical and industrial engineering at the University of Massachusetts, reviewed the numbers that anyone said it was possible, he said.

McGowan, he said, “actually sat down for three weeks and did the math and said, ‘Holy crap!’”
...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.massli ... utType=amp

https://www.masslive.com/business/2022/ ... n-air.html

So it seems the system " is not dependent on... sunlight..." But rather derives energy from the heat of compression by compressing ambient air.

The article is a few years old. Apparently a prototype was successfully demonstrated since then (? According to the claims made in the website ?)

[Tom Booth]

It's a clever pitch but I think it's dead on arrival.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJHrr21UvY8

They say it has already been tested and proven.

I'm not sure what point your trying to make.

[VincentG]

They say it has already been tested and proven.

I'm not sure what point your trying to make.

The pressure of the water column is not due to the volume of the water in the column. It's only due to the height of the column. It looks to be a good way to heat air with a fluid, but not much else, unless there's some magic I'm missing.

[Tom Booth]

We are well beyond proof-of-concept, have a contract in place with Holyoke Gas & Electric (hged.com) and unimpeachable, 3rd-party technical validation. All 32 claims of a recent patent application affirmed by PCT.

https://www.cleantechopen.org/en/challe ... view/30684

[Tom Booth]

They say it has already been tested and proven.

I'm not sure what point your trying to make.

The pressure of the water column is not due to the volume of the water in the column. It's only due to the height of the column. It looks to be a good way to heat air with a fluid, but not much else, unless there's some magic I'm missing.

This maybe:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airlift_pump

Air lift pumps have been around since 1797.

This "Flooid" system seems to be an air lift pump supercharged by injecting cold air into thick, dense hot fluid.

The circulating fluid drives a turbine.

No "magic", just a high COP heat pump and super efficient compressor.

[Tom Booth]

Fool doesn't seem to understand that cooling air as it is being compressed makes the compression much easier.

By liquid cooling the compressor the heat of compression is transfered to the fluid.

Then when the air is decompressed, after being pre-coolied you have very cold air being injected into the hot fluid.

The cold air bubbles in the hot fluid expand and rise rapidly driving the "Flooid" up the columb.

Pretty simple.

Of course, I may be wrong about the exact mechanism.

[Tom Booth]

An older version of the website depicts something else going on with the gas that reaches the top of the tower:

Compress_20241121_211226_6711.jpg (39.88 KiB) Viewed 282 times

https://web.archive.org/web/20210116033 ... -it-works/

Dead link found on this skeptic page:

https://www.2greenenergy.com/2019/05/16 ... odynamics/

Typical 2nd Law of thermodynamics thrashing these technologies have always received for over a century, in spite of the technology obviously working, Gorrie, Tripler, etc.

[Tom Booth]

According to the Wikipedia article ORC is used in connection with the heat from a compressors intercoolers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_Rankine_cycle

See above under "waste heat recovery".

A video on the function of an intercooler.

https://youtu.be/0B8K1ZCJl9A

I have one of the type of high pressure compressors depicted in this video.

These very high pressure compressors require water cooling.

I bought one in anticipation of needing to compress helium for the 3 kilowatt Stirling but ended up not needing it.

https://youtu.be/2_zLTxGJQTE

They require water cooling as can be seen in this video or will rather quickly burn up from the heat generated.

Resize_20220813_164719_9353.jpg (172.99 KiB) Viewed 274 times

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