Stirling Engine & Heat Pump
Re: Stirling Engine & Heat Pump
Of course, everybody has it wrong but you.
Your inflated head that makes you think you know it all and have a right or obligation to badger the rest of the world into compliance with your limited myopic viewpoint makes you nothing more than an irritating pest nobody likes or wants around but nevertheless, under the circumstances must tolerate.
Re: Stirling Engine & Heat Pump
The AI is wrong in that case. Proof is here:
Does temperature change the electric field strength of a proton +, or an electron -, ? No. Not that I've ever heard.
Does temperature change the molecular size? No, not that I've ever heard.
Do the molecules get closer together? How could they if the container stays the same size. Won't the density be the same, hot or cold? Yes it will. Gasses fill their containers. So density stays the same. Molecules per volume stays the same. So distance between molecules must stay the same.
Gas molecules do not get closer with lower temperatures.
If molecules are bouncing off each other, they are getting as close to each other as the possibly can. Like vibrating in a solid close, or closer, over compressed from momentum before the bounce. The faster they are going the closer over compressed they get from momentum during a bounce. So slowing down will actually cause them to not get as close, but closer than for a solid. Closer than the balance between attractions and repulsions. Hotter equals closer.
But hotter means faster, so the gas will push outward, and inward, more, by traveling closer to their bouncer.
So what happens if they slow down enough. They will be going so slowly that they will become bonded to another. Liquid bond. This will happen a little at a time. Since two bonded molecules zipping around take up about the same space as a single molecule, the rest of the gas bounces off the bonded molecule, less often. Less numbers of particles. So pressure is lower than for ideal gas.
Lowering the pressure lowers the boiling point. So the gas must be cooled further to condense more. This is measured and put on a phase diagram and is the area under the liquid vapor dome.
What has triggered the AI to be in error is the process of constant pressure cooling. I tried to get the AI to respond yo constant volume, but it was beyond it's intellectual ability/programming.
For a constant pressure cooling, cooling a gas mass that has an outside pressure will reduce the size of the gas volume by compression. It confuses the issue when a container isn't rigid.
I've tried many times and ways to explain this. It is obvious to me. Take a step back and think.
.
Re: Stirling Engine & Heat Pump
.
If you ask do gasses contract, you will often get the colloquial answer, YES. But it really isn't true, and only applies to constant pressure cooling. And that 'contraction' only happens because an outside pressure compresses the gas volume. Not because the gas "pulls".
However if you ask do gasses ever pull, you likely will get the correct answer of, NO. They always have residual absolute pressure.
If course you will likely get many wrong answers, especially if asking the wrong people, or AI. Or the wrong question.
You might compare the next answers with the above two answers for the following:
Do gasses always push?
Or
Do liquids ever pull? (Think surface tension and hydrogen bounds.)
Do gasses, (or liquids), fill their containers?
.
I would bet a large number of professors have this correct and agree with me. Still many, like yourself, are wrong about this. And it will also depend on how you ask the question.Tim Booth wrote:Of course, everybody has it wrong but you.
If you ask do gasses contract, you will often get the colloquial answer, YES. But it really isn't true, and only applies to constant pressure cooling. And that 'contraction' only happens because an outside pressure compresses the gas volume. Not because the gas "pulls".
However if you ask do gasses ever pull, you likely will get the correct answer of, NO. They always have residual absolute pressure.
If course you will likely get many wrong answers, especially if asking the wrong people, or AI. Or the wrong question.
You might compare the next answers with the above two answers for the following:
Do gasses always push?
Or
Do liquids ever pull? (Think surface tension and hydrogen bounds.)
Do gasses, (or liquids), fill their containers?
.
Re: Stirling Engine & Heat Pump
You think gases and liquids are absolutely dissimilar. Liquids stay in their containers, can be poured and siphoned, stuff can float on water etc.
...but gases are completely different having achieved "escape velocity" of course they always zip and zoom all over like little bullets "forever" in random directions at the speed of sound until they hit something solid and bounce off.
In your imagination.
In reality, gases are much more boring and often act just like a liquid
https://youtu.be/FWybQPxKy1U
...but gases are completely different having achieved "escape velocity" of course they always zip and zoom all over like little bullets "forever" in random directions at the speed of sound until they hit something solid and bounce off.
In your imagination.
In reality, gases are much more boring and often act just like a liquid
https://youtu.be/FWybQPxKy1U
Re: Stirling Engine & Heat Pump
.
There are four kinds of people:
Those that know what will happen.
Those that make things happen.
Those that watch things happen.
And those that wonder what happened?
Tom, Everytime I put together a set of logical science, I think, he'll get it this time, the facts, math, and logical connection are all there. Plain to see. Irrefutable. Yet you seem to always ignore them with ill prepared yarns, banter, and ignorant dismissal. I can't help you. I tell the truth.
Solids, liquids and gasses differ in how much energy, and it is reflected in molecular motion, bonding and mass.
If you don't have a theory any better than classical physics, you probably have nothing. Your comments are easily refuted by nature.
Classical theory, starts fitting together like puzzle pieces, once you understand enough of the pieces and where they go and how and when to use them.
If you don't understand how the three phases, of the exact same molecules, relate, and why they differ, you won't progress any further than wondering what happened.
First you need to experiment in such a fashion to see if a vacuum, nothing, can pull, or if gasses always have positive pressure. And why absolute pressure is always positive.
.
There are four kinds of people:
Those that know what will happen.
Those that make things happen.
Those that watch things happen.
And those that wonder what happened?
Tom, Everytime I put together a set of logical science, I think, he'll get it this time, the facts, math, and logical connection are all there. Plain to see. Irrefutable. Yet you seem to always ignore them with ill prepared yarns, banter, and ignorant dismissal. I can't help you. I tell the truth.
Solids, liquids and gasses differ in how much energy, and it is reflected in molecular motion, bonding and mass.
If you don't have a theory any better than classical physics, you probably have nothing. Your comments are easily refuted by nature.
Classical theory, starts fitting together like puzzle pieces, once you understand enough of the pieces and where they go and how and when to use them.
If you don't understand how the three phases, of the exact same molecules, relate, and why they differ, you won't progress any further than wondering what happened.
First you need to experiment in such a fashion to see if a vacuum, nothing, can pull, or if gasses always have positive pressure. And why absolute pressure is always positive.
.
Re: Stirling Engine & Heat Pump
As usual, you simply ignore quite obvious, concrete physical evidence that anyone and everyone else can readily see and observe.
You say gases always expand at "escape velocity" once a gas is no longer a liquid.
Your simply wrong. That is not always the case, that's just poor, limited, incomplete observation and obsolete science from 1800's
"Classical thermodynamics" is an obsolete, dying religious cult. The so-called "Carnot Limit" is the worst superstitious nonsense that Carnot himself rejected practically before his book came off the printing press.
Yes, gases are relatively less dense than solids and liquids. The attractive forces are not as effective or strong in a gas as in a liquid, those forces, however still exist and still have an influence, and lucky for us or we would have no atmosphere to breathe.
You say gases always expand at "escape velocity" once a gas is no longer a liquid.
Your simply wrong. That is not always the case, that's just poor, limited, incomplete observation and obsolete science from 1800's
"Classical thermodynamics" is an obsolete, dying religious cult. The so-called "Carnot Limit" is the worst superstitious nonsense that Carnot himself rejected practically before his book came off the printing press.
Yes, gases are relatively less dense than solids and liquids. The attractive forces are not as effective or strong in a gas as in a liquid, those forces, however still exist and still have an influence, and lucky for us or we would have no atmosphere to breathe.
Re: Stirling Engine & Heat Pump
.
Our atmosphere is held to Earth by gravity. 14.7 psi is caused by gravity, pulling on gas molecules which are bouncing off of each other enough to keep themselves gaseous, at that temperature spread and pressure spread. 14.7 pounds of air weight stacked up all the way to the vacuum of space on top of every square inch at sea level. Rho gee ach, pgh.
Containment is gravitational not electrostatic. All these puzzle pieces are taught in a good college. First year physics 101, and 102. Ignorance and cherry picking doesn't teach this.
.
Our atmosphere is held to Earth by gravity. 14.7 psi is caused by gravity, pulling on gas molecules which are bouncing off of each other enough to keep themselves gaseous, at that temperature spread and pressure spread. 14.7 pounds of air weight stacked up all the way to the vacuum of space on top of every square inch at sea level. Rho gee ach, pgh.
Containment is gravitational not electrostatic. All these puzzle pieces are taught in a good college. First year physics 101, and 102. Ignorance and cherry picking doesn't teach this.
.
Re: Stirling Engine & Heat Pump
.
The density of gasses ranges from liquid, or higher, to almost the vacuum of space. Space has about one molecule per cubic centimeter, and is way better than any Earth bound lab vacuum.
.
The density of gasses ranges from liquid, or higher, to almost the vacuum of space. Space has about one molecule per cubic centimeter, and is way better than any Earth bound lab vacuum.
.
Re: Stirling Engine & Heat Pump
.
Guessing what is out there isn't working for you. Lots of scientific, data, math, lab work, and theory, conclusively demonstrates your errors. Learn more from a certified instructor, not from other ignorant web folk.
.
Guessing what is out there isn't working for you. Lots of scientific, data, math, lab work, and theory, conclusively demonstrates your errors. Learn more from a certified instructor, not from other ignorant web folk.
.
Re: Stirling Engine & Heat Pump
I do experiments and make observations that YOU, admittedly cannot explain with your theories.
So, right or wrong, I have my own tentative theories.
Yours, from days gone by centuries ago, I've already conclusively thrown out the window as obvious garbage.
The "Carnot limit" is baseless nonsense that obviously is either completely wrong or simply does not apply to Stirling type external combustion engines with no mass flow through the engine.
Steam carries "latent heat".
Heat itself cannot carry latent heat. There is no mass to carry any hidden latent heat through a Stirling engine. So the assumptions based on Steam engines developed in 1824 don't apply to Stirling engines that have no mass flow and no latent heat, developed afterward that Carnot never took into consideration because the Stirling engine had not even been invented before his book was published.
Your opinions, theories and supposed education does not change or control the reality of experimental outcomes.
When you actually repeat any one of my experiments and post your results you might have something to talk about. Until then your just an ignoramus with a bloated ego who mistakenly think he knows everything.
All you can do is say the results of my experiments constitute "an anomaly".
You have no answers. Only antiquated obsolete theory you are desperately clinging to as the world moves on leaving you behind.
So, right or wrong, I have my own tentative theories.
Yours, from days gone by centuries ago, I've already conclusively thrown out the window as obvious garbage.
The "Carnot limit" is baseless nonsense that obviously is either completely wrong or simply does not apply to Stirling type external combustion engines with no mass flow through the engine.
Steam carries "latent heat".
Heat itself cannot carry latent heat. There is no mass to carry any hidden latent heat through a Stirling engine. So the assumptions based on Steam engines developed in 1824 don't apply to Stirling engines that have no mass flow and no latent heat, developed afterward that Carnot never took into consideration because the Stirling engine had not even been invented before his book was published.
Your opinions, theories and supposed education does not change or control the reality of experimental outcomes.
When you actually repeat any one of my experiments and post your results you might have something to talk about. Until then your just an ignoramus with a bloated ego who mistakenly think he knows everything.
All you can do is say the results of my experiments constitute "an anomaly".
You have no answers. Only antiquated obsolete theory you are desperately clinging to as the world moves on leaving you behind.
Re: Stirling Engine & Heat Pump
I’d like to see a good explanation for viscosity besides molecular attraction. Curiously air gets more viscous at higher temperatures.
Re: Stirling Engine & Heat Pump
.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity
https://www.google.com/search?q=causes+ ... e&ie=UTF-8
https://www.google.com/search?q=causes+ ... s-wiz-serp
Basically at the same density, higher temperatures means the molecules are bouncing off each other more often, so interfering more. That is also reflected by higher pressure.
It's another piece of the puzzle that fits into and corroborates the kinetic theory, with size and forces added. Ideal gas law has no viscosity.
.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity
https://www.google.com/search?q=causes+ ... e&ie=UTF-8
https://www.google.com/search?q=causes+ ... s-wiz-serp
Basically at the same density, higher temperatures means the molecules are bouncing off each other more often, so interfering more. That is also reflected by higher pressure.
It's another piece of the puzzle that fits into and corroborates the kinetic theory, with size and forces added. Ideal gas law has no viscosity.
.
Re: Stirling Engine & Heat Pump
.
Tom, your rage and useless banter is stifling your brain. You have no theory. All you have is a guess from a simple phenomena, and a crude contradictory guess. Easily discarded by classical theory.
Where are your numbers predicting how much the temperature will be? Based on what measurements, and mathematical theory. you haven't even formed a hypothesis, nor really spelled out any predictions. You've only described an alleged phenomenal observation.
Classical theories will correctly describe what you are seeing after measuring all the correct things. Please measure power output, indicator diagram, temperature on both sides of the hot and cold plates. In fact measure the temperatures across the entire width of the cold plate to see how it spreads out.
And quit yammering about 'proof'. You've done nothing of the kind except in your own fanciful mind. You have identified a phenomena. No one is going to help you study it. Welcome to the lonely world of scientist, and science.
.
Tom, your rage and useless banter is stifling your brain. You have no theory. All you have is a guess from a simple phenomena, and a crude contradictory guess. Easily discarded by classical theory.
Where are your numbers predicting how much the temperature will be? Based on what measurements, and mathematical theory. you haven't even formed a hypothesis, nor really spelled out any predictions. You've only described an alleged phenomenal observation.
Classical theories will correctly describe what you are seeing after measuring all the correct things. Please measure power output, indicator diagram, temperature on both sides of the hot and cold plates. In fact measure the temperatures across the entire width of the cold plate to see how it spreads out.
And quit yammering about 'proof'. You've done nothing of the kind except in your own fanciful mind. You have identified a phenomena. No one is going to help you study it. Welcome to the lonely world of scientist, and science.
.
Re: Stirling Engine & Heat Pump
.
VincentG, Let me please ask the following:
Do you agree that gasses push, and never pull? Is it caused by kinematic collisions of real gas molecules?
How about you Matt?
.
VincentG, Let me please ask the following:
Do you agree that gasses push, and never pull? Is it caused by kinematic collisions of real gas molecules?
How about you Matt?
.