Peter Lindemann video on Tesla cold hole

Discussion on Stirling or "hot air" engines (all types)
Tom Booth
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Re: Peter Lindemann video on Tesla cold hole

Post by Tom Booth »

Fool wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2024 2:13 pm I didn't say you said that. You are the one that brought up what science is.
More lies upon lies:
Science is not limited to observations... ...Simplifying science the way you do is erroneous.
I only mentioned I'm still making observations. I have not yet settled on any overall final theory.

I don't deny there is more to science than observation.

There is also, of course, experiment.

Observation and experiment are two essentials completely lacking from the Carnot theory generally and the "efficiency limit" in particular.
Fool
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Re: Peter Lindemann video on Tesla cold hole

Post by Fool »

" I have not yet settled on any overall final theory."

Your denial of the second law and lack of evidence supporting that denial, is your theory. Your use of insults and banter, is conclusive evidence that you don't have any support. How many times must I repeat that before it sinks in to you.
Tom Booth
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Re: Peter Lindemann video on Tesla cold hole

Post by Tom Booth »

Fool wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2024 7:36 pm " I have not yet settled on any overall final theory."

Your denial of the second law and lack of evidence supporting that denial, is your theory. Your use of insults and banter, is conclusive evidence that you don't have any support. How many times must I repeat that before it sinks in to you.
Your incessant repetition of your opinions and insistence that others accept your POV rather than "agree to disagree" or "live and let live" makes you a pest at best and a fanatic. "Your a pest" may be an insult, but it is simply the truth.

Your stuck in the 1820's. You and your ilk do nothing but hold back progress.
Fool
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Re: Peter Lindemann video on Tesla cold hole

Post by Fool »

Insults again. Nothing new.
Tom Booth
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Re: Peter Lindemann video on Tesla cold hole

Post by Tom Booth »

Fool wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:41 pm Insults again. Nothing new.
Not an "insult". Just an unbiased, objective observation.

You and your 1820's Carnot water wheel concept of heat engines and insistence that your mythical dysfunctional or non-functional "Carnot engine" is the be all and end all has already stalled progress and development for the past 200 years.

Your hounding, lies, misrepresentations and harassment, along with that of others of your type have wasted much of my time that could have been better spent, and I'm just one person.

Multiply that by the population of the world and multiply that again by 200 years to get a picture of the damage your gloom and doom "heat death of the universe" "no free lunch" "it's all impossible" philosophy has done to set back human progress.
Fool
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Re: Peter Lindemann video on Tesla cold hole

Post by Fool »

One of these days you will learn to shrug off the "doom and gloom", and go your own way. That is only because of your own perception of doom and gloom.

Tom Booth wrote:Not an "insult". Just an unbiased, objective observation.


Again you spew forth narrow minded unsupported opinion as if you are some unauthoritative ignoramus by choice. Grow up. That opinion of yours is a about as unbiased as fleas ears not being in their legs.

.

Yeah, they are. So not unbiased. (You'd think I wouldn't have to explain that.)

Learn more. Fumble less. Stop ignoring advice that you obviously request repetitively.

.
Tom Booth
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Re: Peter Lindemann video on Tesla cold hole

Post by Tom Booth »

Fool wrote: Sat Aug 31, 2024 3:27 am (...)
... Stop ignoring advice that you obviously request repetitively.
Asking for "advice", opinions or feedback for consideration, is not a request to have those opinions or viewpoints forcefully crammed down ones throat.

I did not ignore your input until it clearly proved unequivocally to be intentionally fallacious and deceptive.

Your insistence that people "stop ignoring" you is a symptom of your fanaticism. I'm under no obligation to accept bad advice put forward with malicious intent. Nobody is, though obviously your over inflated ego and sense of self importance makes you think that is the case.

Perhaps the Carnot line of the "Illuminati" mysticism, continues down to modern times and you happen to be one of its deluded members.

"Sir Carnot"

viewtopic.php?p=24616#p24616

LOL...
Fool
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Re: Peter Lindemann video on Tesla cold hole

Post by Fool »

Perhaps one day you will realize it isn't me or my theory that you are ignorant of but many people, and lots of science. Not just one temperature anomaly. Good luck.
Tom Booth
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Re: Peter Lindemann video on Tesla cold hole

Post by Tom Booth »

Fool wrote: Sat Aug 31, 2024 10:56 pm Perhaps one day you will realize it isn't me or my theory that you are ignorant of but many people, and lots of science. Not just one temperature anomaly. Good luck.
So why can't you, or anyone else actually come up with some verifiable information about when, where and how this "science" actually originated?

Just suddenly started appearing in textbooks in the mid 70's ?
Fool
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Re: Peter Lindemann video on Tesla cold hole

Post by Fool »

Textbook writers didn't understand it until the 1970's?
Tom Booth
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Re: Peter Lindemann video on Tesla cold hole

Post by Tom Booth »

Fool wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2024 4:05 am Textbook writers didn't understand it until the 1970's?
Understand "IT"?

Understand what?

How does anyone understand something that doesn't exist yet?

It had to have originated from somewhere.

Here we have MIT falsely(?) attributing the equation to Carnot or his book:

https://news.mit.edu/2010/explained-carnot-0519

And here NASA:

https://cryo.gsfc.nasa.gov/ADR/Carnot.html

Never mind the thousands of lesser authoritative sources all claiming with exuberant glee the "amazing" "remarkable" discovery by "Carnot" in his book published in "1824".

Here is Google's AI generated response:
The Carnot limit formula originated in 1824 in the book Reflections on the Motive Power of Fire by French physicist Nicolas Léonard Sadi Carnot. The formula is:
Efficiency = 1 - Tc/Th
This is not science or history, it's gaslighting.

Why are we being forced fed this obvious and transparent lie that can not possibly be true?

I think it is prudent to dismiss these claims and the so-called "formula" as entirely spurious.

I personally have no use for unverified nonsense and lies no matter how many times those lies are repeated or taught as "fact" when the so-called "facts" are contradictory and don't add up for anyone with any common sense, especially when those obvious lies have no empirical basis and clearly contradict actual empirical observations and measurements.
Fool
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Re: Peter Lindemann video on Tesla cold hole

Post by Fool »

I think you need to look up the etymology of "gas lighting".

The only one trying to convince people that they are 'silly, ludicrous, crazy, lying,' is you. Your so called, "contradict actual empirical observations and measurements", is only a temperature anomaly. Let's look into it. Science, education, and mathematics denial, is gas lighting. Correctly using theory, is science.

The whole purpose of empirical testing is to develop a reliable theory. The whole purpose of a theory, is for reliable prediction of empirical processes, to make observations more reliable.

.
Fool
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Re: Peter Lindemann video on Tesla cold hole

Post by Fool »

Those two links are typical of incomplete understanding of history. Big deal, a human mistake, not a scientific mistake. For that you need to produce an engine that can be reliably test to have broken the Carnot limit. Not saying it can't be done, just saying that it's difficult to be reliable.

.
Tom Booth
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Re: Peter Lindemann video on Tesla cold hole

Post by Tom Booth »

Empirical evidence for:

Carnot efficiency limit theory: 0

Tesla 100% heat conversion: 20+ *

* I count at least 20 of my video recorded experiments posted to YouTube specifically designed to objectively test the Carnot theory predictions vs. the Tesla predictions.

There were, of course many more, as well as videos posted by others showing some "anomalous" (i.e. contrary to the Carnot theory) behavior.

200 years and zero experimental evidence in support of the "Carnot" theory.

I need to produce an engine?

Let's see your "Carnot engine" first.

I can use pretty .much any "off the shelf" Stirling engine on the market, and already have.

You have a clear bias Mr. "Fool"

Your about as objective as...

Well, I can't really make a comparison without offending someone, pick any fanatical zealot. Your worse.

Only one experiment is needed to disprove a theory.
matt brown
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Re: Peter Lindemann video on Tesla cold hole

Post by matt brown »

The Carnot theorem likely evolved after Otto since this brought the compression cycle to the forefront of engine design. However, this relationship may have been made by Emile Clapeyron when reviewing Carnot's work. Few know of this guy, but at least wiki has this right...

Clapeyron.png
Clapeyron.png (61.64 KiB) Viewed 1474 times

Last night, I read the whole thread on that other science forum where Tom continues his typical bashing. Oddly, someone mentions that the Carnot limit can be derived from the ideal gas law, but no one followed this up, instead diverting to the Clausius mumbo-jumbo. My spin is that the Carnot limit relates only to simple compression cycles where everything reduces to simple ratios. Moving away from these simple cycles may cost Carnot his crown, but I wouldn't waste much time chasing this.

BTW Fool, you made an error somewhere recently relating isothermal compression where you thought buffer pressure effected the heat of compression. Nope...during an isothermal expansion, the gas doesn't care where Wpos goes, so if more work goes to ambient vs man, no problem with heat/energy balance. Likewise, during an isothermal compression, the gas doesn't care where Wneg comes from, no problem with heat/energy balance. The simple 'proof' is that U=0 for any isothermal process, so the ratio of useful vs useless work per process doesn't effect Qin during expansion or Qout during compression. However, I know exactly what you're getting at and I posted it last year...that in reality, depending upon design, we pay Carnot on the front end during expansion or on the back end during compression.

Here's what you were wrestling with...consider 300-600k Stirling cycle where Carnot=.50 and we know that compression will be 50% of expansion...in a vacuum (no buffer pressure). So, if we consider Wpos=100 then Wneg=50 and Wnet=50. However, if a buffer pressure is present, then our Wnet=50 is reduced during the expansion process. On a cyclic basis, this changes nothing, but if Wneg>Wpos during expansion then the engine will stall before it ever gets the "free lunch" from ambient compression later in the cycle. This is what Senft gamed, but this obscures the fact that any LTD with a relatively high backwork ratio (and low thermal ratio vs this 300-600k example) has virtually Wnet=0

As you also said somewhere recently, using ratio simplifies stuff since ratios can cross-cancel integrals (when done prudently).
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