Why do you say atmospheric pressure and/or temperature is 300. But "starting pressure" is 400?Fool wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 2:53 amAfter expanding the gas from point two and, Th, V1/V2 and P2 to T3, V3 and P3/Atmospheric/P1, Tom wants to continue expanding adiabatically until the gas reaches Tc. This will be similar to the instructor pulling on a plugged syringe.Fool wrote:Pulling a vacuum on a plugged syringe requires an input of work, the gas inside expands doing work for an adiabatic temperature drop. The work input by pulling, plus the work output by the gas, are both absorbed by the atmosphere, changing it negligibly, storing the energy as a spring. The springiness is cause by the difference in pressure inside and out.
This will diminish the pressure below atmospheric, producing an inward force. An extra outward force must be applied as energy into the engine. It could come from the outgoing energy from the momentum, using up that energy. If all the forward stroke gained energy is used, the volume will double at the point where the piston stops from that decelerating force.
Inside pressure 200 will be half the starting pressure 400. Temperature will be lower than Th. And momentum will be zero. The energy earned in the forward stroke, momentum, will be spent and stored in the force pushing inward. Similar to a spring.
The piston now moves inward accelerating. The gas heats up from compression. At the half way point, again the gas will be T3,V3, P3, and the same amount of energy will be stored in momentum going inward.
The atmosphere only provides a free U-turn. Now the momentum is being used to recompress the gas. Pressure inside 400 gets higher than outside3
300. The temperature continues to rise adiabatically. The momentum is used up when back at T2, V2/V1, and P2. The starting point of the expansion. Zero work can be output.
Atmospheric pressure 300, temperature 300 and volume (infinite) remain almost unchanged at all points of the cycle. A negligible change.
Seems to me the engine starts out at equilibrium with the outside temperature and pressure.
Heat is added "isothermally" presumably, in this scenario?
The temperature then should not have gone above the initial "starting temperature" where everything was in thermal equilibrium i.e. 300.
Also you say something about "The energy earned in the forward stroke, momentum, will be spent and stored in the force pushing inward. Similar to a spring."
Previous to that you said:
All the momentum is gone or "used up", but you also say it is somehow "stored".An extra outward force must be applied as energy into the engine. It could come from the outgoing energy from the momentum, using up that energy. If all the forward stroke gained energy is used, the volume will double at the point where the piston stops from that decelerating force.
Inside pressure 200 will be half the starting pressure 400. Temperature will be lower than Th. And momentum will be zero
You assume a "starting temperature" that is 100 degrees higher than equilibrium, before heat is added.
If inside temperature goes to half after adiabatic expansion that should be half of 300, I think, not 400, which is never achieved with isothermal expansion.
Energy cannot, in most circumstances be both "used up" or "spent" but also stored. In particular not in an "infinite reservoir", as you conclude:
"Atmospheric pressure 300, temperature 300 and volume (infinite) remain almost unchanged at all points of the cycle. A negligible change."
So you have still not explained how or in what way you suppose this "spent" and "used up" energy is "stored" and supposedly returned.
Again, you are still claiming the return of energy that was "used up" and "spent" somehow being "stored" and returned "similar to a spring".
Lots of inconsistencies, contradictions, errors and just general lack of clarity.
I'm still unclear about your use of V1 v2 V3 etc. in statements like:
What is "point two"?After expanding the gas from point two and, Th, V1/V2 and P2 to T3, V3 and P3/Atmospheric/P1, Tom wants to continue expanding adiabatically until the gas reaches Tc.
You seem to equate P3 with P1 as well as atmosphere? "P3/Atmospheric/P1"
You said:
Should this "below atmosphere" volume and pressure be represented in some way?After expanding the gas from point two and, Th, V1/V2 and P2 to T3, V3 and P3/Atmospheric/P1, Tom wants to continue expanding adiabatically until the gas reaches Tc. This will be similar to the instructor pulling on a plugged syringe.
This will diminish the pressure below atmospheric
V4 P4 perhaps?
I don't know.
Suddenly on the return stroke you allege pressure is quickly back (sic.) to 400. When it was never above 300.The atmosphere only provides a free U-turn. Now the momentum is being used to recompress the gas. Pressure inside 400 gets higher than outside3
300. The temperature continues to rise adiabatically. The momentum is used up when back at T2, V2/V1, and P2. The starting point of the expansion. Zero work can be output.
Why are "back at T2, V2/V1, and P2. The starting point of the expansion"
Whatever you mean by that is not clear.
What is V2/V1?
Are you dividing?
Are you equating the two?
How can T2, V2 and P2 be associated with "the starting point of the expansion"?
"The" expansion means what?
The start of the cycle OR the start of "Tom's" extended adiabatic expansion?
I'm frankly just getting tired of your poorly constructed, carelessly worded, incomprehensible, disconnected from any common sense reality, abstract arguments.
You present this garbage talk as if it were conclusive proof of anything. All it is is your attempt at a wave of the hand dismissal.
Maybe you can clarify this.
Draw a cylinder marking the actual positions that V1, V2 etc are supposed to represent might help.
Sorry but I don't have time to try and unscramble your omelet.
If you can put together some coherent arguments for consideration, fine, but I'm likely not going to respond to any more of this kind of illogical, confused, mixed up contradictory nonsense.